Posted on 04/18/2008 7:34:25 PM PDT by Chief Engineer
C.'s Attorney General Wally Oppal has confirmed that some of the 416 children taken by authorities from a polygamist compound in Texas, are Canadian.
Oppal said officials in Ottawa gave him the news.
His statement came after Angie Voss, of Texas child protection services, said during a custody hearing in Texas on Friday that some of the children we from Canada, though she gave no details about how many were there, or how old they were.
The large group of children were seized from the compound after allegations of sexual and physical abuse were made, including forcing underage girls to marry men several times their age.
Oppal told The Canadian Press he had been alerted that some Canadians were involved. He said government officials would be getting involved, though it wasn't clear what their role would be.
Oppal said officials gave him the news because there is also a polygamist compound in Bountiful, B.C., and members have close ties to their American counterparts.
"This has been an issue for quite some time in that it has been said that at Bountiful there are said to be some Americans there as well," Oppal said.
"It sort of adds another dimension to the problem here. That is, that people move in and out of these communities and it's sometimes difficult to find out who's where and what."
Oppal said the call from Ottawa was "giving us a heads up because they know that we're involved in that same issue here."
Unprecedented ruling
In an unprecedented ruling, the judge in the case has ordered that all children in the case will remain in state custody.
The court heard that at least five of the children who are under 18 already have had children of their own.
The children were taken from an Eldorado, Texas compound which belonged to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
The children, most of whom are being kept in a domed coliseum in San Angelo, range in age from 6 months to 17 years. About 130 are under 4 years old, Voss said.
Voss said that the children are taught "...no age too young to be married."
She added that there is "...a culture of young girls being pregnant by older men."
The court has heard that the girls would have little ability to say no.
Psychiatrist Bruce Perry said a child raised to be absolutely obedient would have, "the independent thinking of a much younger child."
Polygamous marriage is a central tenet for members of the religious sect.
The sect is led by their prophet, Warren Jeffs. Formerly on the FBI's most wanted list, the leader has been convicted and jailed for being an accomplice of rape by forcing a 14-year-old girl to marry her 19-year-old cousin.
He is now awaiting trial on other charges in Arizona. The sect came to West Texas in 2003, moving from its traditional home along the Utah-Arizona state line. Voss said the ranch was considered a special place, the sect's Zion.
Authorities raided the 1,700 acre raid after a call from someone identifying herself as a 16-year-old girl on the ranch. The girls said she was beaten and raped by her 50-year-old husband.
The girl has yet to be identified, though Voss said a girl matching her description was seen by other girls in the ranch garden four days before the raid began.
I have not seen them going around asking people to prove kids were theirs. This is not a regular case, and I think it will turn out that many of these children are not the biological children of these *mothers*.
susie
No, I want to know if you have any personal knowledge of any bad foster parents. Do you?
And, hon, YOU were the one painting them all bad by saying the kids would be gangraped, etc.
susie
NO I was not go back and read the post
and yes I have known kids who were in bad foster homes. did not know the people running them
it is cases like this that law enforcement and child protective services uses to establish that they can and then they will.
for years child protective services claimed they were not constitutional law enforcement so they did not need a search warrant to go into houses if you refused the sheriff would come and arrest you for interfering with them and they took the kids took a supreme court decision to stop that
and yes I know someone caught up in that took almost a year and a lot of money to git kids back even after court decided they were not at risk
how was that started well they did it and a county court told the parents they could and that was it for years
OH, so now we have an international child ring happening. The plot thickens.
a. Seems you can do anything if you call it a religion.
b. Some people hate and distrust the government so much that they’d rather let a. happen than do anything about it.
I wonder how many Mann Act charges will be leveled as more revelations begin to be released.
This federal statute forbids taking children across state lines for the purpose of any sexual activity (immoral purposes) for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense
For example, for purposes of prostitution, forced underage marriage, forced sexual slavery etc.
There are many more avenues for prosecution in the complete Mann Act but for the purposes of this thread, the above brief definition will do.
Leni
Different articles report different portions of the reports. You should know this, having read many articles on the same topic here on FR. Often, you have to read as many of them as possible to get the complete picture. Don’t let your hatred for the USG blind you to real problems that must be addressed.
No, the poster is not too emotional—but I do believe you are willing to turn a blind eye to any offense if there’s a way you can make the USG look bad. If you don’t like our government, shouldn’t you be looking for either (a) ways to change it to your liking or (b) somewhere else to live? Of course, anywhere else you’d go would be subject to FAR FAR worse repression than even what you and others here allege.
Makes me want to re-think some of my affliations, quite frankly.
Where have I said it is OK to rape children? I have said the acts carried out by the government in this case are ILLEGAL, UNCONSTITUTIONAL, and if we don’t stand against it today, it will be visiting your door some day.
If a child was raped in that compound, then you need to have an the name of that child, the rapist, and those are the people who interact with law enforcement. In this case, they assumed, wanted to believe (just as you are), insisted, that this was going on. As soon as some anonymous caller gave them that flicker of hope, they ran with it.
We should be furious that our government is acting in this manner. It is setting us up for a socialist, communist government, right before our very eyes, and you are one of the ones going blindly along with it, because they found something that tugs at your heartstrings. We should change the laws guaranteeing us certain rights as citizens of this country, because it is for the children. Listen to yourselves.
That's it in a nutshell. Beyond sad. I don't even recognize this forum these days.
Oh come on, it is not hate for the USG that I have. It is hate of the changing of our fundamental rights by incrementalism. Don’t you believe that people have the right to private property? Yet, incrementally, the laws have been changed so that you have the right to private property until some government entity decides that it can make more money off of your property if another individual has it.
Don’t you believe you have a right to privacy? Well, except if you are smoking, eating fat foods (I know I am exaggerating), using too much electricity, too many tvs, etc.
What about right to free speech? Have you heard of McCain-Feingold that limits free political speech? I could go on.
Don’t you believe you have the right to be innocent until PROVEN guilty? Not guilty and then you prove your innocence at any drop of the hat the government drops at the time?
That is what has happened in this case, on a very large scale. And people here are falling for it, left and right, because it is for the children. Of course I want child rapists DEAD. Nothing is worse.
But what the government did this time scares me, as it has many other times. One, because I am a homeschooling parent. Can one of my neighbors decide they don’t like my religion, how I am raising my kids, and drop a dime on me. Child services shows up, takes my kids, and I have to prove I am not a nut before they give them back. This is indeed very scary.
I love my country, I love the constitution amazing men wrote over 230 years ago. They knew government could not be trusted and had to have very strong limits placed on it.
BTW, based on your suggestion other articles out there that proved there were pregnant 13yo girls in the compound, I went and looked. Nothing out there I can find. The CPS representative suggested it may have happened, but did not have any evidence of it currently. Hmmm...
Metmom, you should know better that I have the same outrage when this happens to homeschool parents. That is why I fall on this side of the line in this case. I think it is another example of the government overstepping its bounds in regards to free, private citizens.
If we decide that parents in this case aren’t raising their kids acceptably, when will it be the Amish, the Mennonites, the Baptists, the homeschoolers on the whole. For those attending homeschool groups, when will CPS show up to those meetings and take the kids because someone called and made an anonymous accusation.
Just recently the mom accused of drunk driving by another patron at the restaurant she was in. Lost her kids, had to prove her innocent, and nearly lose everything she owned in legal fees. I am outraged, furious. All because she had to prove her innocence, not the government prove her guilt.
I could go on... you ping me to almost all of those articles as is.
In the case of Jeffs being convicted of being an accomplice to rape, there were actual, identified victims. They did not just go in and grab all of the kids and then find their victim. And, honestly, I consider both kids in that so called marriage to be innocent. They were raised with those instilled beliefs.
I definitely think the beliefs of the FLDS are wrong, fundamentally wrong, unbiblical. But, I guarantee there are many out there that think the way I believe is wrong, including some in my own family. Those differences is what make us unique as Americans, we can be different and have the freedom to seek that out.
And when it comes to crimes in this country, we have some protections under the constitution. That is what scares me about this case and so many others like it. This one just draws more attention because of the scale.
This situation is not McCain Feingold.
It was a legal action, with proper warrants, and done without violence.
Since no one was arrested, no one has been proven guilty. Being in custody is not the same as being arrested.
And frankly, I don’t care if you homeschool your kids or not—that wasn’t the issue here. If they burst in—without a valid warrant—on one of your homeschooling sessions and drag you and the kids out—then I will get out my pitchforks, tar and feathers.
But I simply do NOT subscribe to the philosophy that EVERY thing the USG does is evil. Waco was evil. This one was not.
To run a country, you have to have laws. Anarchy has never been a successful way to run a country.
Maybe not in your household, but it certainly would be in mine.
Here's the deal, it's not like the standard of behavior in this group is unknown ~ Mr. Jeffs is in prison on account of that standard in fact.
It's reasonable to suspect that if you see what seems to be a pregnant minor at one of the F(lds) camps, that's what you're seeing.
We don't need to hold a trial FIRST to bring the child into protective custody. We can do those things later on.
Again, F(lds) and other polygamist groups think they are invisible and the rest of us don't really know what they're doing, but that's a false belief ~ just like many of their other beliefs.
OH, so compensated sexual services is ok?
Your accusation was a 13yo girl pregnant. They have not proven that, it is not reported or testified to. The CPS rep said she thought there was. THOUGHT... not proven.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.