Posted on 04/18/2008 7:34:25 PM PDT by Chief Engineer
C.'s Attorney General Wally Oppal has confirmed that some of the 416 children taken by authorities from a polygamist compound in Texas, are Canadian.
Oppal said officials in Ottawa gave him the news.
His statement came after Angie Voss, of Texas child protection services, said during a custody hearing in Texas on Friday that some of the children we from Canada, though she gave no details about how many were there, or how old they were.
The large group of children were seized from the compound after allegations of sexual and physical abuse were made, including forcing underage girls to marry men several times their age.
Oppal told The Canadian Press he had been alerted that some Canadians were involved. He said government officials would be getting involved, though it wasn't clear what their role would be.
Oppal said officials gave him the news because there is also a polygamist compound in Bountiful, B.C., and members have close ties to their American counterparts.
"This has been an issue for quite some time in that it has been said that at Bountiful there are said to be some Americans there as well," Oppal said.
"It sort of adds another dimension to the problem here. That is, that people move in and out of these communities and it's sometimes difficult to find out who's where and what."
Oppal said the call from Ottawa was "giving us a heads up because they know that we're involved in that same issue here."
Unprecedented ruling
In an unprecedented ruling, the judge in the case has ordered that all children in the case will remain in state custody.
The court heard that at least five of the children who are under 18 already have had children of their own.
The children were taken from an Eldorado, Texas compound which belonged to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
The children, most of whom are being kept in a domed coliseum in San Angelo, range in age from 6 months to 17 years. About 130 are under 4 years old, Voss said.
Voss said that the children are taught "...no age too young to be married."
She added that there is "...a culture of young girls being pregnant by older men."
The court has heard that the girls would have little ability to say no.
Psychiatrist Bruce Perry said a child raised to be absolutely obedient would have, "the independent thinking of a much younger child."
Polygamous marriage is a central tenet for members of the religious sect.
The sect is led by their prophet, Warren Jeffs. Formerly on the FBI's most wanted list, the leader has been convicted and jailed for being an accomplice of rape by forcing a 14-year-old girl to marry her 19-year-old cousin.
He is now awaiting trial on other charges in Arizona. The sect came to West Texas in 2003, moving from its traditional home along the Utah-Arizona state line. Voss said the ranch was considered a special place, the sect's Zion.
Authorities raided the 1,700 acre raid after a call from someone identifying herself as a 16-year-old girl on the ranch. The girls said she was beaten and raped by her 50-year-old husband.
The girl has yet to be identified, though Voss said a girl matching her description was seen by other girls in the ranch garden four days before the raid began.
I am not defending the behavior of the church members. I am defending their right to their beliefs. Albeit I am having a little problem with their beliefs, but am also read enough to realize there is a biblical basis.
Moreover, I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy of the state which will now indoctrinate them into the secular mainstream society. Here they will learn that homosexuality is ok. They will receive condoms and birth control pills. They will have abortions when birth control methods fail. They will be exposed to all sorts of STDs including AIDS. They will be taught that it is okay to have two moms or two dads.
This is the ultimate example of arrogant hypocrisy. If you guys can’t see it, then you must be state bureaucrats yourselves. Since it is common knowledge most bureaucrats are idiots.
All these bureaucrats will do is remove these children from one bad environment to a much worse environment. In foster homes they will be gangbanged beaten and raped by their brothers, sisters, and neighbors. I guess this “lesser evil” will be more acceptable to you guys. It’s not to me.
In foster homes they will be gangbanged beaten and raped by their brothers, sisters, and neighbors.
So the worst that will happen in their foster home is the stuff that happened in their Mormon home?
So that protects rape, incest, beatings, brainwashing, waterboarding infants,?
Does that mean I can do whatever I want and not be prosecuted for it if I claim it's part of my religion?
So when sharia law is practiced and people have their hands cut off for stealing, women are stoned for being raped, FGM is practiced, we can't do anything about it because it's part of their religion?
Child sacrifice has been part of many religions through out history. Does that mean that can't be stopped if someone claims it's part of their religion?
Why have laws at all then?
As someone pointed out on another thread, “ Maybe it’s easier to groom a little girl to be a child bride if you’re just her “assigned” mother.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2003795/posts?page=8#8
Great point Jedidah.
Those are interesting questions. Much deeper than any of the elian questions. But, we won’t be going deep on this.
Others might even be returned to their mothers ~
This will take a couple of months to sort out. DNA tests take a month by themselves.
The children will not be harmed by a short absence from the F(lds).
You have something against that?
BTW, that condition is evidence of statutory rape in Texas.
Maybe not where you live ~ what is it, 12, but only with your sisters?
See the difference?
Children are not property.
You’re right about how it should be, but it isn’t how it is. Kids have been being taken from homes for decades based on anonymous complaints. They even have anonymous tip hotlines for the purpose.
I wonder why there was never any outrage when this sort of thing was happening to homeschool families for decades? Most of them homeschool for religious reasons. Isn’t that religious persecution also?
Why the outcry just now, when the leader is in jail on rape charges. There, at least, is come evidence of the wrong doing. Better evidence than most homeschool families ever had presented against them.
“You are one of those law and order folks aren’t you? The law is the law and if you don’t like it seek to change it right?
So it’s okay with you when a judge ignores the LAW too so long as it fits within the parameters of your guiding light right?”
Not absolutely. I am very fond of the idea of jury nullification. I would disobey the law if I believed it to be unjust.
It is not ok with me if a judge disobeys the law while in the courtroom (I don’t care if they jaywalk or whatever on their own time).
There is a problem we run into in allegations of child abuse. Protecting children while giving due process to the alleged abusers, when they are parents, is tough.
I have five kids. I could get accused of abuse (falsely, I assure you). I wouldn’t want the kids taken from me while they decided whether to proceed. In that case, I am being treated as guilty before being proven so. Also, my kids are being irreparably harmed.
But. I don’t voluntarily belong to a church whose public, official doctrine is to marry my daughters off outside of their will as child brides. I don’t voluntarily live in a closed community with ample physical evidence that the child bride doctrine is being unashamedly practiced. I don’t hand my kids off to other moms to raise while I raise theirs. And I would never give false or dissembling answers as to which child is mine or not, switch names around, and otherwise try to muddle the authorities who reasonably need to know whose child is whose.
So, I think we are in a difficult, grey area here. I am not willing to paint everyone associated with the government (the CPS folks, the foster care folks, the judges, law enforcement) as evil incarnate.
If we were talking about the abuse of adults here, even older teens, it would be a different situation. It would not harm adults or even older teens to be separated from their alleged abusers.
Multiply this difficulty times 400 and I have a hard time thinking of how this could be handled better.
I can’t go along with the opinion that all those kids should stay with all those adults in their big ranch, subject to further molestation, abuse, witness tampering, and getting spirited across the border, while we figure out relationships . I’d let them stay with their moms, but, we can’t figure out who their moms are, and that’s not our fault.
I read the article, they did not have evidence of a pregnant 13 yo. Quit exaggerating so you can justify your silly emotional outbursts. Seriously.
Prove they are slaves? Would you consider my kids slaves because I make them do chores for no compensation, it is a process of living in my household.
You are seriously too emotionally out of control on this to be logical. It is too bad.
Most American children have birth certificates stating who their parents are. These children not only don’t have those, they don’t appear to know who their parents are themselves. Why are you defending this?
susie
So then, as long as they can fly under the radar, not allow anyone in to see what’s going on, it’s perfectly fine with you if underage children are raped by older men?
susie
This has been an eye opening couple of weeks. I too am stunned. susie
I have known 3 people in my life who were licensed to be foster parents. None of them did any of the things you list in your post. Exactly how many foster parents have you known, and what illegal activities did they participate in with the children in their care? If you can't answer that question, then I suggest you apologize for your outburst and retract it.
susie
and from some reports so do these
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2004148/posts
On April 3, hundreds of agents — a SWAT team, FBI agents, Texas Rangers, San Angelo police, highway patrol, and sheriff's department officers from four counties — raided the YFZ ranch, backed by an armored personnel carrier, K9 dog units and ambulances. For six days they searched the compound for evidence of child abuse and illegal marriages, hauling away a cache of computers, photographs, and birth and marriage records.
this is about half way down and yes it is from abc news an is questionable but so is about 99% of the stuff said here
I still would not want cps to be able to just stop anyone and demand proof the kid they had was theirs. do you carry your child's birth certificate or is it in the safety deposit box or where how fast can you find it or in this case if law enforcement already has it how long to git a copy
yes there are a lot of good foster parents however there are a lot of bad ones too
just google foster parents and child abuse some links
http://www.nccpr.org/newissues/1.html
National data on child abuse fatalities show that a child is nearly twice as likely to die of abuse in foster care as in the general population
http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/statistics/childwelfare_foster.cfm
lots of data collected by states and in records
again some foster parents are great but some are not do not paint them all good or bad
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