He just KEEPS getting better looking; doesn't he!!
Posted on 04/09/2008 4:41:39 PM PDT by JRochelle
SAN ANGELO, Tex. - Adult FLDS men were having sex with underage brides inside the massive limestone temple at the polygamous sect's Texas ranch, a confidential informant told authorities.
According to a request for a search warrant unsealed today by a Texas judge, Schliecher County Sheriff David Doran has been working with a confidential informant who has shared information about the ranch over several years. On Saturday, as a sweeping raid was underway at the YFZ Ranch, the informant spoke to Doran and made the allegation about the temple, the court filing said.
The affidavit was from Texas Ranger Leslie Brooks Long, who reported being at the ranch and observing a bed inside the temple with disturbed linens and a long hair, apparently from a female.
The document was filed in support of the state's request for a second warrant to search the ranch, owned by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. That warrant was signed Sunday; an earlier warrant had been signed on Thursday, the day the raid began.
Since then, authorities have removed 419 children, accompanied by 139 women.
Tom Green County District Judge Barbara Walther unsealed the documents during a hearing today.
She also ruled three members of the sect have the legal right to challenge the massive search, and said she will appoint a special master to review documents and computer hard drives seized from the sect's ranch. The special master will determine what material is privileged and protected as strictly religious.
Gerald Goldstein, who is representing sect members, estimated that hundreds of boxes of documents have been taken from the YFZ Ranch.
"We ought to be able to cull out those that are sacred," he told the judge. "If it relates to the children, they get it. If it doesn't, they don't."
Police can seize any documents related to family lineage, he acknowledged.
Allison Palmer, assistant district attorney for the 51st District, argued that sect members did not have legal standing, or should not be allowed to challenge the search. No arrests have been made, she pointed out.
But the judge disagreed, granting legal standing to three men:
- Lyle Jeffs, representing himself and the FLDS church. He is the bishop of the FLDS church's Short Creek stake on the border of Utah and Arizona and the father of two children taken from the ranch.
- Ranch overseer Merrill Jessop, who is also is a presiding elder in the sect.
- Isaac Jeffs, a brother of the sect's leader.
Goldstein said the men are no longer seeking to quash two state search warrants used so far by officials, conceding the point is moot because a federal search warrant has been issued.
It is most probable that the men of this cult are guilty. However.. some of the conclusions being made on this thread are flat out wrong.
Go to any highschool in America and you will find dozens of pregnant teens. If they arent at the school, it’s because they are pregnant and no longer attend. I went to HS 20 years ago and was quite amazed how few girls made it to graduation without getting pregnant.
Then think about all the abortions that millions of teens have had. People on this thread are ready to go in and burn this compound to the ground, but the state of Maine may be giving contraceptive pills to girls as young as 11 without consenting or even informing parents.
While I agree it is sick for a 50 year old man to “marry” a 16 year old girl, it is almost routine for a 16 year old girl to get pregnant in America (or anywhere in the world for that matter). I honestly think a lot of the hate being thrown around on this thread is more about the religion than the pregnancies. If not, where has all the righteous anger been when 11 year olds are given pills, and teens are free to get abortions without parental consent.
Thanks for the welcome. Isn’t this country great we get to talk about ideas? We even get to challenge the government. How uhmmmm, how uhmmmmm, how democratic is that?
I made an observation about Carolyn Jessup based on her own words. Again, at what age should she have been accountable for her own decisions? when she was 18? 25? 30? after having her 1st child? 2nd child? 3rd child? ...8th child?
Was my bringing up the point that she was an adult and should be responsible for the decisions she made trashing her?
I am mainline Protestant Reformed. I abhor that which is evil. I consider this group deeply heretical and morally bankrupt. If they break the law they should be prosecuted accordingly. As much as I loathe their heretical teachings, I recognize that this country affords freedom of religion unless it engages in illegal practices. It is foolish to judge a matter before you hear all sides.
During Waco and Ruby Ridge there was a devious and intentionally designed PR effort by FBI, ATF to spoon feed to the media lies, half truths to demonize those that it had in its cross hairs (literally) and to nullify any pubic outcry. Today all the government has to label you with “cult,” “abuse,” “fundamentalist,” “right wing,” “extremist,” “white separatist” plus throw in key words like “compound” (i.e. militaristic) or “has had some ties to” to deliberately sway public opinion. The government and media can and does paint a picture of anybody to look anyway the want. And the moronic Oprah, Mr. Phil tv audience laps it up. The battle is for the hearts and minds of people.
Have you read her book? I found her claims to be credible.
She wasn’t so brainwashed that she couldn’t think for herself. She did and she got out.
GWII, Did you HEAR what she had to say? What kind of mother would abandon her children? She had EIGHT of them to try to get out all at once. An almost impossible feat and she almost didn’t make it.
How is describing a compound as a compound inaccurate and sensationalistic?
You don’t think sex with minors and beating them is abuse?
You put it in quotes to imply that it’s something they made up?
Hello, this group IS engaging in illegal practices. Where have you been?
“It is most probable that the men of this cult are guilty”
It is enough today for us to follow this breaking crime story involving an up to 10,000 member cult, and discuss it.
Just wondering. Oh yea, polygamy is NOT Biblical.
But... but...
What about TOILET SEATS??!!??
Not quite...
They’re a bunch of perverts who actually FOLLOW what the HOLY books of Mormonism state as an EVERLASTING COVENANT.
The FLDS say that the LDS bunch out of SLC are the remains of a spineless bunch of men, who, in the 1890's, caved in to the the power of the United States Government and stopped PRACTICING polygamy; but never stopped BELIEVEING in polygamy.
Yes, too bad someone didn’t get a real photograph of him before he was killed in jail by a mob of Christians in the name of Christianity because he didn’t think exactly like they did.
Go to any highschool in America and you will find dozens of pregnant teens.
Yep..... and I bet most or nearly all of them got that way by their own personal consent. Did the girls in this sect have the freedom to make that same personal consent?......
GWII said:
“I consider this group deeply heretical and morally bankrupt. If they break the law they should be prosecuted accordingly. As much as I loathe their heretical teachings, I recognize that this country affords freedom of religion unless it engages in illegal practices. It is foolish to judge a matter before you hear all sides.”
metmom says:
“Hello, this group IS engaging in illegal practices. Where have you been?”
“You don’t think sex with minors and beating them is abuse?”
LIKE GWII SAYS, PLEASE WAIT UNTIL THE FACTS COME OUT!!
IT’S NOT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND.
IN FACT, IT TAKES A BIGGER PERSON TO RESTRAIN THEIR CONDEMNATIONS OF THIS GROUP THAN IT DOES TO SPOUT OFF “GUILTY, HANG ‘EM ALL”.
They, the men, probably are guilty of something, but at least allow them the right to a trial. Jeez, read your Constitution again and put away your rope.
Where’s the outrage against the thousands of Catholic Priests that have been FOUND GUILTY BY A JURY for molesting little boys? This is an anti-Mormon thing and you all know it.
I thought this group didn't represent mainstream Mormonism. If that's the case, how can our opinions about this group be construed as anti-Mormon?
>>”I thought this group didn’t represent mainstream Mormonism.<<”
When did you change your mind? You’ve been equating the two not only on this thread, but others as well and you know it!
>>”...how can our opinions about this group be construed as anti-Mormon?”<<
That’s what I’ve been wondering since this story broke! And all I get is that I’m defending the wrongdoings of Jeffs and his ilk at the “compound”.
I enjoy a good healthy debate as much as anyone, metmom, but this is getting out of hand with the accusations and such. I’m not going to lose any FRiends over this stupid incident in TX. We both know there was weird stuff going on at the FLDS temple, and as adults we should admit that weird things happen in all churches.
Why do those that are so quick to condemn the Mormons as being in bed with the FLDS continue to ignore the Catholic Priest HOMOSEXUAL CHILD RAPE issue?????
I’m off to work.
With respect, metmom,
panaxanax
A careful read of this case has the girl getting pregnant while 14, 14 not 16. I may be wrong but in my book a 14 years old girl, even one rasied on our sick, over sexualized culture, is still a girl, a child at 14. The reproductive plumbing may function but the mind and soul are still not adult. YMMV
I never changed my mind. I know the official position of the mainstream LDS leadership on this issue and I know that you and several others have distanced yourself from this group.
Sadly, there are others claiming to be Mormons who have not, and are condoning polygamy, trying to support it using Scripture. Check out some of the other threads.
I’ve never seen you defend Jeffs, as a matter of fact, IIRC, you have condemned him strongly, although I have no idea where the post is by now.
I can see where your concern about First Amendment rights comes into this. It’s a valid concern. I don’t like the idea of the government dictating anything about religion but again, I have a hard time with people engaged in this kind of unbelievably horrific behavior protecting it by declaring it a religion and invoking the First Amendment in a bid to force the government to stay out of it and not protect its own citizens from criminal behavior and exploitation.
I still don’t see any alternative then how the government is going about this. They’ve used search warrants. Reports are that the people have left voluntarily. I still don’t think infiltration is possible. Wire tapping, might work, but if they have any suspicion at all, which I think they would, they would be VERY careful about what they’re saying. I understand they have their own facilities and contractors for a lot of work. Bugging the place is not going to work.
Unless they get to those records, they just have the testimony of the people who have left, and from what I hear it’s pretty condemning and they are not interested in going back.
There’s been plenty of outrage at the priest issues. People have demanded change, but I didn’t see ANYONE defending them, not Catholics, not people calling themselves Catholics, not non-Catholics. No one worried about the First Amendment those times.
This is an extreme case. I don’t think that it’s going to set any precedent in the government dealing with religious groups. They’re hardly acting implusively. They’ve been onto this group for years an the call they got was the first real legal opportunity they’ve had to act. I have to give them credit for their restraint.
Again, if they had Waco’d this group, yes, I would be outraged. It would have been wrong, but it hasn’t happened this time. I think they learned their lesson.
Respectfully, yours.
The reproductive plumbing may be functioning, but it is not ready.
See this post:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1999328/posts?page=204#204
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http://www.tqnyc.org/NYC040579/TASFIA.htm
” Research indicates that health risks are higher for infants that are developing in a young body. This is because most teenage mother’s bodies are still developing themselves. A teenage body is yet not ready to reproduce. When a baby is developing in a young body the space for it s growth is limited and small.”
“Young mothers, especially mothers who are under the age of 15 have high rates of delivering a premature baby, stillbirth, and low birth weight baby. This happens because from the ages 12-15 the body goes through the most changes and is developing the most. When a female is pregnant during this time it disturbs the body from doing its job. For one thing it stops women from having her monthly period.”
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http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001516.htm
“Adolescent pregnancy is associated with higher rates of illness and death for both the mother and infant.
Pregnant teens are at much higher risk of dying or having serious medical complications such as toxemia, pregnancy-induced hypertension, significant anemia, premature delivery, or placenta previa.
Infants born to teens are 2 to 6 times more likely to have low birth weight than those born to mothers age 20 or older. Prematurity plays the greatest role in this, but intrauterine growth retardation (inadequate growth of the fetus during pregnancy) is also a factor.
Teen mothers are more likely to have unhealthy habits that place the infant at greater risk for inadequate growth, infection, or chemical dependence. The younger a mother is below age 20, the greater the risk of her infant dying during the first year of life.”
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Sadly, some people don’t want to be bothered by the facts.
It is highly possible this thing is getting blown out of proportion, (sensationalized), in order to sell more newspapers.
However, the base concern is still there.
One man, who has disappeared, is a convicted child molestor, 50 some years old, and was having forced sex with a girl (or multiple girls), speculated to be between 14 and 16 years old.
Anything’s possible. I don’t think it’s probable.
Simply reporting the facts on the case without additional commentary is disturbing enough. If people are outraged, it’s because of the evil they see, not because of the sensationalism of the media.
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