By yes, you are apparently denying that Sarai gave Hagar as a "wife" to Abram. Is that your position? I couldn't really tell, since you qualified your "yes" so much that it kinda sounded like a "no".
Where in the Hebrew text is the word "surrogate"? I can't seem to find that word anywhere in the text.
Will you admit that the word "surrogate" has been added by you and is not in the original text.
Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. Galations 4:22-26
Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. Galations 4:30, 31
bondwoman here is paidiske in the Greek, a female slave or servant, bondmaid,
Gen 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
Gen 21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, [even] with Isaac.
Gen 21:11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham’s sight because of his son.
Gen 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Gen 21:13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he [is] thy seed. Genesis 21:9-13
Bondwoman here is amah in the Hebrew, a maid-servant, a female slave, handmaid, bondmaid, definitely not a free wife
Gen 16:3 And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.
Gen 16:4 And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.
Gen 16:5 And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong [be] upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee.
Gen 16:6 But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid [is] in thy hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face.
maid here is shiphehah in the Hebrew, a fem ale slave (as a membewr of the household) bondmaid, handmaid, servent, wench, bondwoman, womanservant
And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. Genesis 16:3
wife here is ishshash in the Hebrew, a woman, adulteress, wife (often unexpressed in English)
It was Sarai’s idea, not God’s...
If Hagar was a “wife”, she would not have been called a bondwoman by God, Abram and Sarai, after the deed...
Give me a break, P-M! (You're starting to sound like a Mormon who says the word "trinity" isn't in the text of the Bible). No, the 7-letter word "Trinity" isn't there; but three divine Persons unified as one Being, yes, it's there. No, the word "surrogate" or "surrogacy" isn't there, but the concept is crystal clear: "Now Sarai, Abram's wife, had borne him no children...she said to Abram, "The Lord has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my maidservant; perhaps I can build a family through her." (Gen. 16:1-2, New International Version)
Hebrew word for build=banah (meaning the same thing, build or establish)...so tell me, P, what is family-building thru the womb of your slavegirl to be called if not "surrogacy?"
By yes, you are apparently denying that Sarai gave Hagar as a "wife" to Abram. Is that your position? I couldn't really tell, since you qualified your "yes" so much that it kinda sounded like a "no".
Let me try to get some clarity here on what we agree on: We agree on the action Sarai took: She "mastered" a slave & said to her slave, essentially "you're his to sleep with" (because as I've already told my husband, I want a child to build my family). That's all clearly laid out in Gen. 16:1-3.
What I am still questioning is whether a slaveholder has a right to turn her slave over to another for sex. (And in fact, as we look thru history, is this not more aptly called "rape?")
I looked at another FReeper thread today on the same story, and found this comment from a poster named "Cherry": I guess in reality, there have been several religions that gave the "godly" okay for men to rape young girls and to keep them as their sex slaves.....I don't know any other way to put it..... (Source: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999244/posts?q=1&;page=51)
So my question back to you, P, is doesn't Cherry raise a legit question here with her comment? If a slaveowner orders a slave to have sex with her husband, isn't it possible that this is "rape" and that a slaveowner has overstepped her stewardship of that slave? Isn't this situation comparable to an educator who has sex with a 17 year-old in his/her classroom? (Person in authority comandeering sex) Even if the 17 yo supposedly "agreed," there is no such thing as "consentual" sex in this kind of authoritative relationship. I mean this is even true for a supervisor & employee in his/her charge. (We know that is simply "sexual harassment" or "abuse of authority," etc.)
And is this same "abuse" by a person of authority the exact issue that jumpstarted this thread? Have there been church leaders & parents who have overstepped their authority in ordering an underaged girl to be the wife or plural wife of an older man? (like Abram was an older man).