BREAKING NEWS UPDATE: Authorities enter Eldorado-area temple (Fundamentalist LDS cult)

Go San Angelo ^ | 5 April 08 | Paul A. Anthony

[Spktyr]

Can’t pray, that might offend some hypothetical atheist on the jury, then they’d walk. :P

[McCoMo]

I hope you are right. I hope, if they are guilty, that they are convicted to the fullest extent of the law. I hope the defendants get a stupid attorney who never thinks of using this as a defense tactic. It is a defense tactic that would not work for me, and obvously not for you either. But it is a defense tactic that could very well work with SOME people... let us hope one does not end up on the jury.

I do not know about you, but I have seen enough guilty men walk free, because the cops made a bone-headed move. I do not want to see any more.

[Spktyr]

*We* like it.

Every decade or so, some legislator tries to get support to change the Texas Constitution to make the Legislature more like the Feds with full time legislators. Said person is usually ignored AND summarily tossed out of office in the next election.

[P-Marlowe]

BUT, it only takes ONE juror who believes it for the guy to walk. Guilty men walk every day, for a lot less.

There is no accounting for the idiocy of jurors. If someone is that stupid and they get on the jury, then they are not going to need a reason to acquit. A "reason" suggests that there is something reasonable in their thought process. The OJ jury didn't need a "reason" to acquit. Their own idiocy and racial prejudices were sufficient.

[Republic of Texas]

Why didn’t you just say that in the first place?

[SkyPilot]

Another weak monkey wrench tossed into the discussion.

Really? Then don't go around here posting in large Red font and screaming like this.

They're no authorities on God. They're authors who have a purpose--an agenda to prove. They are not closer to God's answers due to "research."

So then no book or work by any author is valid? I guess C.S. Lewis, Dr. Ravi Zacharias, Rev. Billy Graham, and any other author can be thrown in that mix of yours because they have an "agenda?"

God has authority - and the Bible is His work. Those who practice in cults violate the Bible.

Let's take just one sentence from that post about cults.

B. Second, cult teachers will proclaim a “gospel message” that is ultimately is a message of works-centered salvation, in sharpest contrast to the Good News of saving grace through faith in Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9). They’ll preach “another gospel.”

So tell me, what do you disagree with? Is Ephesians 2:8-9 wrong, or are the cultists who violate it more correct vis a vis what God says?

Surely, you jest.

Oh, for crying out loud, if the largest search engine in the history of humanity is not to your liking, so be it. But there is a plethora of information out there in the world, and yes - some of it is pretty darned useful. I guess because Shakespeare, Physics, and Calculus are also found on Google we should discount those topics as unworthy of discussion as well.

The reason that there are so many variations of Christianity is because there are so many ways to read our current translations of The Bible. You cannot argue--or insult--that away.

I accept many denominations as my brothers and sisters in Christ. Baptists, Methodists, Presbetarians, Missionary Alliance, and nondenominational bible believing churches. That is why when go to Christian church websites, they have a statement of faith. All of them do. This clarifies that they believe what the bible teaches.

It will be something like this:

_______________________________________________________________________

Statement of Faith

- There is one God, who is eternal and infinitely perfect, and who exists in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This idea of one God existing as three persons is expressed in the Bible and described by the church as the Trinity.(Deuteronomy 6:4; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14)

- Jesus Christ is God, the Son. Like the Father and the Holy Spirit, Jesus is fully God, but He is also fully man. He existed eternally as God with the Father and the Spirit and became a man when He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He died upon the cross as a substitute for sinners. He was the just and righteous One who died on behalf of those who are unjust and unrighteous. Because of His sacrifice, everyone who believes in Him is justified and considered righteous in the sight of God. He also physically rose from the dead after three days in a tomb. Today He lives in Heaven at the right hand of God the Father where he represents believers like an advocate and intercedes on their behalf. One day, He will come again to earth to establish His government of righteousness and peace. (John 1:1-18; Philippians 2:1-11; Luke 1:36-38; 1 peter 3:18; Hebrews 2:9; Romans 5:9; Acts 2:23-24; Hebrews 8:1; Matthew 26:64; 1 John 2:1-2; Romans 8:34)

- The Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity. Like the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit is fully God. He is sent from the Father and the Son to live within the souls of Believers in order to guide, teach, and empower them as they follow Jesus in this world. He also acts to convince the world of its guilt regarding sin, and of the righteousness of Jesus Himself, and of the judgment of Satan, the prince of this world. John 14:15-18; John 16:13; Acts 1:9; John 16:7-11)

- Salvation has been provided through Jesus Christ for all men. Everyone who repents of their sin and trusts that Jesus died for them on the cross and that God accepts Jesus' death on their behalf receives salvation as a gift from God. Like being “born again,” they receive a new nature from the Holy Spirit, and become children of God. (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9; John 3:3; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Titus 3:4-7)

____________________________________________________________________

If it isn't along those lines, run for the hills.

I'm not Mormon; my family is not Mormon; and I have never been Mormon. You cannot, however, claim LOGIC or ACCURACY when you decry the religion as a cult because other competitors for "perfection" vote to say that they are.

Wrong. I absolutely can.

Cults are real. Cults are dangerous. Cults exist.

You would do best to educate yourself about them, rather than sticking your head in the proverbial sand and attacking those who point out their characteristics.

Here you go:

Kingdom of the Cults

[repinwi]

http://www.myeldorado.net/

I already posted this link earlier. It's current with their updates and story.

[greyfoxx39]

What utterly amazes me is that you seem to think the chants were worse than the actual events that occurred. After all, that's what you have chosen to herald here. Rather strange IMO.

Rather a broad indictment, including reading my mind and attributing motive to me.

Thanks for your comments. I know where you are coming from.

Obviously NOT!

[snarks_when_bored]

You're probably onto something. After all there could be something in the New Testament that lends support to Anti-semetism.

You reckon?

[editor-surveyor]

"Well, they do have to investigate the complaint of a 16-year-old girl who has been forced to marry a 50-year-old lecher and bear his child."

But first they have to prove that such a person even exists.

These "phone calls" are a common technique of CPS invaders. A member of their own staff usually gets someone to make the call, then they send the goon squad in.

Our constitution requires that the accused be confronted by their accuser. In these cases we really have neither accuser nor a specific accused. The warrants are clearly illegal.

[CindyDawg]

I'm not sure where you got that...maybe from my abortion post?

I do believe that in most cases the parents are the best ones to decide if a child should marry under 18. I got married at 16 to a 19 y/o. When life expectancy was shorter and large families were needed to survive, kids were expected to mature and marry at a much younger age. I read somewhere that after the civil war young girls were marrying older men because so many of the young ones didn't return.

So..I don't necessarily agree with a set age but accept our laws which were probably made because kids were being abused.

All of that said...under no circumstances do I support anyone, man, woman, esp child, being abused in any way, whether cult or family.

[TLI]

I heard that on the radio last night, haven’t seen it confirmed in print. I think what it means as there are children there as young as 3 months old.

Probably. I was really just curious about the "informant" part. And that stems from the quote from C.P.S.

The earlier refusal to provide access was even more disconcerting because CPS investigators have yet to identify the 16-year-old girl …

So far none of the updates or other articles indicates that they have located her.

Makes me wonder and I don't think they had any advance notice that the raid was coming. And with no advance warning how did the guy named in the warrant (Barlow) manage to be in Arizona receiving the phone call from Texas authorities by the very next morning? Which apparently that is where he lives, not at the location in Texas with the 16 year old girl.

If there was an informant, why did the informant think Barlow was in Texas?

If the call from Texas is backed up with phone records it seems to me that Barlow might be right, he never heard of her. Then everything unravels from there...

[wolfcreek]

Old map. It’s also a former game ranch.

[PennsylvaniaMom]

as the girl is a minor and an alleged victim of a sexual assault (statutory rape) her identity will never be released by the police, DA or media. It is common practice in such cases.

[CindyDawg]

It matters but most times we get along because we care about each other.

[MHGinTN]

There seems to be a growing number of democrats in the Texas legislature, a decidedly unsettling trend.

[DaveMSmith]

There is one God, who is eternal and infinitely perfect, and who exists in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This idea of one God existing as three persons is expressed in the Bible and described by the church as the Trinity.(Deuteronomy 6:4; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14)

The apostles never believed in a three person Trinity. That was hatched out of the Council of Nicea. See Colossians 2:9: For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Nowhere in the passages you cite is 'persons' mentioned.

[wolfcreek]

“If Utah and Arizona authorities had been doing their jobs during the past 50 years, this cancer would not have been able to spread into Texas in the first place.”

I agree. In light of this prior criminal activity, is it legally possible for a state, such as Texas, to prevent cults or other undesirables from buying property within said state?

[DoughtyOne]

If a payoff could be confirmed, I might agree, but I'm not sure that's the case.

Payoffs do not have to be monetary. Being granted a "spiritual blessing" from the Prophet is at least as much of an incentive to trade your child into slavery as a monetary payoff. The fact is that these parents willingly force their children into sexual relationships with old men and expect some kind of reward in exchange.

For the record, I would prefer the legal age limit be eighteen.

I would agree that some barter system could also be ground for saying the kids were sold into slavery.  I do want to be careful not to sign on to this too heavily yet in this case.  We don't know what actually took place.  Some of hit may be horific, but I want more than a simple process serving and mass arrests to back up the validity of all this.

Currently the worst thing that can be said with any reliability is that a mass arrest has taken place, and that being the case massive criminality must have been taking place.

Already we have forum participants talking about slavery...

Let's give this a little more time to flesh out.  When we know what was taking place for sure, we can't address it for what it is with no problem.

I suspect that most of what went on was that one perverted old man would trade his own 13 year old daughter for another perverted old man's 13 year old daughter. That, my friend, is slavery.

Neither of us would agree with this taking place, but if the girls were consensual it would not be slavery.  It would be illegal, there would be pedophilia and statutory rape.  It would not be slavery.

Make no mistake about it. What has been going on here is the selling and trading of human beings for sexual purposes.

Please try to refrain from convicting these folks before they have had due process.  While I agree that some unsavory things may have been taking place out there, we have no proof of that at all yet.

There will be plenty of time to address this for what it actually is, after charges are brought and certainly after reasoned convictions are obtained.

I don't like the rush to judgement associated with this.

[DoughtyOne]

I didn’t think you were short at all. Take care.