Posted on 04/06/2008 5:27:22 AM PDT by SkyPilot
Local and state officials entered the temple of a secretive polygamist sect late Saturday, said lawmen blockading the road to the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado.
The action comes hours after local prosecutors said officials were preparing for the worst because a group of FLDS members were resisting efforts to search the structure.
The Texas Department of Public Safety trooper and Schleicher County sheriff’s deputy confirmed that officials have entered the temple but said they had no word on whether anything occurred in the effort.
The incursion into the temple caps the three-day saga of the state’s Child Protective Services agency removing at least 183 women and children from the YFZ Ranch since Friday afternoon. Eighteen girls have been placed in state custody since a 16-year-old told authorities she was married to a 50-year-old man and had given birth to his child.
Saturday evening, ambulances were brought in, said Allison Palmer, who as first assistant 51st District attorney, would prosecute any felony crimes uncovered as part of the investigation inside the compound.
“In preparing for entry to the temple, law enforcement is preparing for the worst,” Palmer said Saturday evening. They want to have “medical personnel on hand in case this were to go in a way that no one wants.”
Apparently as a result of action Saturday night at the ranch, about 10:15 p.m. Saturday, a Schleicher County school bus unloaded another group of at least a dozen more women and children from the compound.
Although members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or FLDS, have provided varying degrees of cooperation to the sheriff’s deputies and Texas Rangers searching the compound, all cooperation stopped once authorities tried to search the gleaming white temple that towers over the West Texas scrub, Palmer said.
“There may be those who would oppose (entry) by placing themselves between law enforcement and the place of worship,” Palmer said Saturday afternoon. “If an agreement cannot be reached … law enforcement will have to — as gently and peaceably as possible — make entry into that place.”
Sect members consider the temple, dedicated by then-leader of the sect Warren Jeffs in January 2005 and finished many months later, off-limits to those who are not FLDS members, said Palmer, who prosecutes felony cases in Schleicher County.
Palmer said she didn’t know the size or makeup of the group inside the temple.
The earlier refusal to provide access was even more disconcerting because CPS investigators have yet to identify the 16-year-old girl or her roughly 8-month-old baby among the dozens removed from the compound, Palmer said.
“Anytime someone says, ‘Don’t look here,’” she said, “it makes you concerned that’s exactly where you need to look.”
The girl told authorities in two separate phone calls a day apart that she was married to a 50-year-old man, Dale Barlow, who had fathered her child, Palmer said.
The joint raid included the Texas Rangers, CPS, Schleicher County and Tom Green County sheriff’s deputies and game wardens from the Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife.
Although CPS and Department of Public Safety officials have described the compound’s residents as cooperative, Palmer disagreed.
“Things have been a little tense, a little volatile,” she said.
Authorities removed 52 children Friday afternoon and 131 women and children overnight Friday. About 40 of the children are boys, said CPS spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner.
No further children have been taken into state custody since Friday, when 18 girls were judged to have been abused or be at imminent risk for abuse. CPS has found foster homes for the girls, Meisner said, and will place them after concluding its investigation.
Meisner declined to comment on the fate of the 119 other children and said authorities were still searching the ranch for others Saturday evening.
“They’re in the process of looking,” she said. “They’re literally about halfway through.”
If fraud is involved the state may put a lien on it. The question is will the women want to live freely or return as soon as they can ,back to the same environment. Kind of like a battered spouse syndrome.
I decided upon something as offensive to the LDs, Iced Tea with non-alcoholic Margaita mix. The martini just didn’t have any appeal tonight.
So would it be ‘water-boarding’ to force these pedophile rapists to drink a nice big mug of Starbuck’s?????? (Extra heavy on the caffeine......)
No doubt some will return.
Having never been taught to think for themselves and be their own person, they just simply won’t be able to cope.
Some still likely believe their eternal salvation is on the line and will not risk it, so they’ll go back, too.
I sure hope that Carolyn Jessup will be able to help the rest of these women. She did it. They can, too.
Seems to me this is a matter of MORALS !!!
Some got it,,,Some Ain’t !!!
FWIW : SEZ ME,,,
I think ANYBODY who rapes a Child should be put to Death !!!
I have no problem with that. But I would add that anybody who defends anybody who rapes a child should be added to the list.
Thank you TN for the link. Quite powerful is Ms. Jessop’s resolve...I pray that there are more with her level of strength to get their children and themselves out of this hell they have been forced to live in. I am guessing alot of people (myself included) will be reading her book.
OTH, this sect is in need of a closer look ... they are not an off-shoot of traditional Mormonism though they are trying to attach themselves to same.
That must mean that they AGREE !,,,
This is just the Tip of the Iceberg...
She still looks happy to me. BTW, I didn’t blow it up.
Thanks for showing the shiny side of mormonism DU, guess fLDS is not that far removed from LDS as you claim. Forget the fact that the man who brought this abomination - Joseph Smith - willfully violated his own 'revelations'
Polygamy contradicts 12th Article of Faith.
"We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."
- 12th Article of Faith, written by the Prophet Joseph Smith
Doctrine and Covenants
The first edition of the Doctrine and Covenants (1835) included a section denying any practice of polygamy:
"Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife, and one woman but one husband, except in the case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again." (History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 247)
Book of Mormon
Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none; for I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts. Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes. For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things (Jacob 2:27-30).
Your vile prophet, DU, brought this into our country under the guise of a 'revelation', that he was to loathe to publish until 1876. At that time the Mormon leaders inserted section 132, which permits a plurality of wives. Obviously, it would have been too contradictory to have one section condemning polygamy and another approving of it in the same book! Therefore, the section condemning polygamy was completely removed from the Doctrine and Covenants.
Note that from the current heading of D&C 132, the church effectively admits the above statement by the church was not true:
"Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831."
And you have the audacity, in the face of your own prophets 'revelations' and canon of mormonism to sit there and try to justify this by referring to David and Solomon! While the Bible does not explicitly condemn polygamy, it certainly discourages it. The original instruction to Adam was that a “man...cleaves to his wife” (Genesis 2:24). Hebrew laws generally imply that a marriage with one wife is the most acceptable form of marriage (Exodus 20:17; Leviticus 20:10; Numbers 5:12). Christ taught that marriage should last for the lifetime of the partners and that, if a man divorces his wife and marries another woman during his previous spouse’s lifetime, he commits adultery (Matthew 5:31-32). (Oh, but wait, mormons believe Jesus married Mary and Martha). These young girls have Joseph Smith to blame for their abuse at the hands of those who believed Smith's 'revelation'. These are the fruits of your prophet.
Matt 7:15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.
16 By their fruits ye shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
No, this is the only fruit Smith was interested in :
2 Nephi 3: 12 Wherefore, the fruit of thy loins shall write; and the fruit of the loins of Judah hall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of the loins of Judah, shall grow together, unto the confounding of false doctrines and laying down of contentions, and establishing peace among the fruit of thy loins, and bringing them to the knowledge of their fathers in the latter days, and also to the knowledge of my covenants, saith the Lord.
Um, sadly, sevenbak thinks the fruit in Matthew 7 are the same as that written of in Galatians. You will not likely get through to them with that clear exposition.
You are not following no one is condoning this Fake, Phony, Fraud organization.
I guess some folks are incapable of critical thinking.
Critical thinking consists of mental processes of discernment, analysis and evaluation. It includes possible processes of reflecting upon a tangible or intangible item in order to form a solid judgment that reconciles scientific evidence with common sense. In contemporary usage “critical” has a certain negative connotation that does not apply in the present case. Though the term “analytical thinking” may seem to convey the idea more accurately, critical thinking clearly involves synthesis, evaluation, and reconstruction of thinking, in addition to analysis.
Critical thinkers gather information from all senses, verbal and/or written expressions, reflection, observation, experience and reasoning. Critical thinking has its basis in intellectual criteria that go beyond subject-matter divisions and which include: clarity, credibility, accuracy, precision, relevance, depth, breadth, logic, significance and fairness.
Resty! You of all posters ought not try to teach ‘critical thinking’!
how do you know were you there?
from the rest of the CULT 100 years ago,,,
I've been following this CULT for nearly a year,,,
20/20 or 60 min. or ? had a show about this “temple” and
Colorado City,,,
Just Sickening !...
how do you know were you there?
__________________________________-
Do I know where I was, here ???
Yeppers ....sho do...
I was in my kitchen making a cup of quite Biblical coffee...
How do you take your’s ????
Here, cut & paste this...note all the parallels between fLDS and their ancestors in their rear-view mirror--19th century & early 20th century LDS:
Note how young the 19th century Mormon wives were!
The book, Changing World, p. 226: The early Mormon leaders certainly did allow their young people to marry at an early age. Mosiah Hancock was only 11 years old when he was "sealed" to a "young girl." According to his journal, he was "born in Kirtland, Ohio, on April the 9th, 1834." ("The Mosiah Hancock Journal," typed copy, p.1). On pages 20 and 21 of the same journal, he recorded: On about January 10, 1846, I was privileged to go in the temple and receive my washings and annointings. I was sealed to a lovely young girl named Mary, who was about my age, but it was with the understanding that we were not to live together as man and wife until we were 16 years of age. The reason that some were sealed so young was because we knew that we would have to go West and wait many a long time for another temple.
According to Stanley P. Hirshon, who wrote a biography of Brigham Young: "Make haste and get married," Remy heard Young preach. "Let me see no boys above sixteen and girls above fourteen unmarried." ... In 1857 The New York Times, reporting the sealings to old men of two girls aged ten and eleven, estimated that most girls married before they were fourteen.... Troskolawsski knew one bishop who was sealed to four of his nieces, the youngest thirteen years old....On August 1, 1856, he put on the stagecoach for Ohio twelve-year-old Emma Wheat, who was being forced into a marriage she detested." (The Lion of the Lord, pp.126-27).
Changing World, p. 225: The shortage of women was so great that some of the men were marrying girls who were very young. Fanny Stenhouse stated:
"That same year, a bill was brought into the Territorial Legislature, providing that boys of fifteen years of age and girls of twelve might legally contract marriage, with the consent of their parents or guardians!" (Tell It All, 1875, p.607).
According to http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no91.htm, Stenhouse was "at one time had been a firm believer in Mormonism and had even allowed her husband to take another wife. She wrote: "It would be quite impossible, with any regard to propriety, to relate all the horrible results of this disgraceful system.... Marriages have been contracted between the nearest of relatives; and old men tottering on the brink of the grave have been united to little girls scarcely in their teens; while unnatural alliances of every description, which in any other community would be regarded with disgust and abhorrence, are here entered into in the name of God...It is quite a common thing in Utah for a man to marry two or even three sisters.... I know also another man who married a widow with several children; and when one of the girls had grown into her teens he insisted on marrying her also... and to this very day the daughter bears children to her step-father, living as wife in the same house with her mother!"(Tell It All, 1874, pages 468-69)
Per researcher George D. Smith (Source: "Nauvoo Polygamists", George D. Smith, Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Spring 1994, p. ix, as found at http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no91.htm) discovered that of "a list of 153 men who took plural wives in the early years of the Mormon Church. When we examined this list, we noted that two of the young girls were only thirteen years old when they were lured into polygamy. Thirteen girls were only fourteen years old. Twenty-one were fifteen years old, and fifty-three were sixteen years old when they were secretly enticed into this degrading lifestyle."
"I shall not seal the people as I have done. Old Father Alread brought three young girls 12 & 13 years old. I would not seal them to him. They would not be equally yoked together...Many get their endowments who are not worthy and this is the way that devils are made." (Source: Wilford Woodruff, Wilford Woodruff's Journal, 5:58.)
Examples of real young girls being married off in 19th century Mormon families: Judson Tolman, 19, married first wife Sarah Holbrook, 13, in 1846 before adding 4 more wives; James Francis Johnson married Rozina Richmond, 13 (perhaps 14) in 1876...then J.F. Johnson took on another wife in 1894 after the so-called "manifesto" supposedly "ending" polygamy--to Clara Barber who was 16--maybe 17. J.F. Johnson was in his late 30s at that time he married Barber.
24 yo Arthur Clark married 14 yo Mary Rasmussen as the second of four wives; Charles Richardson married 14 yo first wife Sarah Adams in 1882--his third wife (Carolina Jacobson) was probably 16 & he was 30. (He had 4 wives overall)
Thomas Chamberlain II actually double-married two 17 yo on the same date in 1873...and then added on a 15 yo (Ann Carling) in 1875 followed by her sister--also 15--three years later.
Abel Hardy married a 15 yo (Maria Cooley) in 1896 and then post-manifesto, married Cynthia Porter (16) in 1901. (Hundreds of 16 yo LDS girls were married off as plural wives in the 19th century and early 20th century).
Notice how the initial LDS leaders set the terrible example for fLDS leaders by being in their 40s or late 30s (or beyond re: later LDS "prophets")
Just look at the compulsory "wifehood" of underaged teens: Brigham Young, when he was in his 40s, wedded 15-year-old Clarissa Decker, 16-year-old Ellen Rockwood (when Young was 44); and 16-year-old Lucy Bigelow (when Young was 45).
Its initial "prophet"--Joseph Smith--promised salvation to the household of the Kimball Klan, and what do you know? 14-year-old Helen Mar Kimball, who initially hated polygamy, was part of Smith's harem. Smith also added to his long list of wives 16-year-old Presendia Huntington; 17-year-old Mary Rollins; 17-year-old Patty Bartlett; and 17-year-old Sarah Ann Whitney. (Smith allegedly began his pre-marital affair with Fanny Alger when she was 16; Smith was the legal guardian of her).
As for LDS 19th century old men: "Joseph E. Robinson recalled that President Lorenzo Snow told him that he had father a child in his eighty-eighth year." (source B. Carmon Hardy, Solemn Covenant, p. 93)
Even the LDS "prophet" who posted a manifesto to "end" polygamy added a wife in 1897 when 90-year-old Wilford Woodruff married 49-year-old Lydia Mountford.
According to Changing World, p. 225, Mormon leaders were "evidently worried that the missionaries would take the best women." Heber C. Kimball, a member of the First Presidency, admonished: "I say to those who are elected to go on missions, ... remember they are not your sheep: they belong to Him that sends you. Then do not make a choice of any of those sheep; do not make selections before they are brought home and put into the fold. You under stand that. Amen" (Original source: Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.256).
Author Stanley P. Hirshon wrote: Kimball always kept an eye out for romance. "Brethren," he instructed some departing missionaries, "I want you to understand that it is not to be as it has been heretofore. The brother missionaries have been in the habit of picking out the prettiest women for themselves before they get here, and bringing on the ugly ones for us; hereafter you have to bring them all here before taking any of them, and let us all have a fair shake" (The Lion of the Lord, New York, 1969, pp.129-30).
No wonder that the Republicans In 1856 the Republican Party made the defeat of polygamy a key plank in its first national platform, characterizing it alongside slavery as one of the "twin relics of barbarism." The federal government soon criminalized the practice and then in effect outlawed membership in the Mormon Church until it would agree to give up polygamy....The reaction of the Mormon Church to this new wave of persecution was, initially, to take refuge in secrecy once again. [Source: Mormon-owned Deseret News, Jan. 6, 2008]
Note the lopsided ages that sometimes occurred with LDS polygamous arrangements:
42 yo Joseph Bentley's third wife was 16 yo (maybe 15) Maud Taylor...Bentley married her in 1901 in Mexico (post the mythical manifesto "ending" polygamy) . Marriner Merrill took a 15 or 16 yo as his second wife in 1856 (Cryne); then another 15 yo (Almira) in 1865 when he was 33; then another 15 yo<>/b> (Maria) in 1867 when he was 35; then 3 more wives between 1885 -1889! I notice that a "Turley" has recently been named as a key LDS historian. (I wonder if he is a descendent from Edward Turley, 32, who married second wife Annie Martineau when she was 15 in Mexico (and of course it was post "no polygamy" manifesto in 1901!). Philip Hurst, when he was 32, married Elizabeth Wilcox (probably 17--maybe 16). She was wife #2 of 4 he married. When he was 37, he married Rebecca Sanderson (probably 15) in 1873.
Like Father (LDS), like Son (fLDS): Both Thought 'Above the Law'
The problem, simply put, is that the lesson the fLDS learned from the LDS 95 years to over a century ago, was to consider yourselves "above the law." Brigham Young said: "If I had forty wives in the United States, they did not know it, and could not substantiate it, neither did I ask any lawyer, judge, or magistrate for them. I live above the law, and so do this people" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p.361).
You should talk MHGinTN you could not even answer one of your own with forthrightness!
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