Openly carrying gun not a crime

Openly carrying gun not a crime Sunday, March 30, 2008 3:43 AM By Bill Bush THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

In the political tussle over Ohio's concealed-carry gun law, one fact seems to have been overlooked by many: You never needed a permit to carry a gun in public, and you still don't --- you just can't conceal it.

As long as you haven't been convicted of a felony, if you want to wear a pistol on your belt or walk around town carrying a shotgun, Ohio has no law against it.

But if you do, don't be surprised if you get some unwanted attention from police officers.

Philip Turner, 30, discovered that in July when he walked from his Hilliard apartment to his parked truck wearing a gun on his belt. At the time, Turner worked protecting banks' ATMs as they were serviced and delivering diamonds to jewelry stores.

An undercover agent with the Ohio Investigative Unit -- the police agency that enforces the state's alcohol, tobacco and food-stamp laws -- saw the gun and quickly ordered him against his truck with his hands on his head.

"He came up and treated me like a felon for absolutely no reason at all," Turner said. "There wasn't even a suspicious action on my part to warrant him taking this action against me. Had I been out waving a gun around the parking lot, (then) yeah."

After being detained for about 30 minutes, and after Hilliard police arrived at the agent's request, Turner was released without charges. An internal investigation that concluded this week found that neither Agent Timothy Gales, who had stopped Turner, nor his partner, Betty Ford, did anything wrong.

However, it also revealed that Gales did not know it was legal for Turner to carry a gun openly, said Lindsay Komlanc, spokeswoman for the state Department of Public Safety. As a result, more than 100 agents in the unit are to attend a mandatory refresher course on Ohio's gun laws over the next couple of months, she said.

The investigation report said that, weeks before Turner was stopped, agents stopped a 13- or 14-year-old boy who was carrying a rifle in public. They called his mother, who retrieved the gun. Then they called a supervisor to figure out what charge to file against the boy.

The answer: nothing. The supervisor advised them that "it was their right to carry a gun openly and they were allowed to do this," according to the report.

Ohio law says you can't sell a gun to people younger than 18 or provide them with one, except for "hunting, sporting or educational purposes," said Lt. Shawn Davis of the State Highway Patrol. A child must take a gun-safety course before going hunting, Davis added.

It's not illegal "that we see" for a juvenile of any age to carry a gun in public, said Jennifer Brindisi, a spokeswoman for the Ohio attorney general's office.

Turner, who has a license to carry a concealed gun, said he was carrying his gun openly "because it's my right. I choose to exercise my right to protect myself." He doesn't know whether the two agents pulled their guns; he was instructed not to face them. The agents told investigators they didn't.

But it wouldn't be unreasonable for officers to draw their guns until they know what the situation is, said Sgt. Rich Weiner of the Columbus Police Division.

"The first thing we need to address: This man has a gun," Weiner said. "We're going to pull our guns.

"As a police officer, we also have the right to protect ourselves and protect the public, so we do have the right to disarm him momentarily. Now everybody is a little bit more at ease. We don't have a potential weapon being used against an officer or anybody else."

If your open display of a firearm is causing panic, you could be charged with inducing panic, Weiner said. If you carry it onto private property, you could be charged with trespassing, he said.

Komlanc of Public Safety wouldn't say why the agents and a police dive team were at Turner's apartment complex last July because the case is continuing.

So basically you posted this to bash law enforcement officers. Golly you are cool.

I used to carry a badge for a living, a loooooong time ago. I was a State of Florida Probation and Parole Officer working some of Miami's meanest streets. At the time, we were considered certified state LEOs but forbidden by department policy from being armed. However, since I was a recent US Army Infantry captain and I subsequently was given a caseload of creeps and perps most likely to attack a LEO I was given authorization to carry with a warning that if I had to shoot, make sure of my justification. LOL I carried a 1911 thereafter.

One of the things I have continually noticed since those days is the sick subculture of LEOs that has sprung up across the nation. It used to be manifested by so called choir practice as cops hung out after work in so called cops bars.... to while away the sparking nerves from a particularly violent or hair raising shift.

Now cops totally insulate themselves from civilians and that word is usually uttered dripping with disdain. This comes from the surge of legal actions that cops see as money grubbing vindictiveness on the part of society. But it is also a result of being brainwashed by the public school curriculum's across the country and this is what is so frightening to me.

It is a byproduct of liberal antigun rhetoric that the school systems have flushed into our youth for the last thirty years! That idea that guns are inherently and intrinsically evil and therefore only the cops or the military should possess them! That sense of entitlement is what created an atmosphere that brought about the Katrina gun grab. Lemme relate to you a little story from right after I left the department but my name was still in the system. I had just gotten one of the initial Florida ccw permits back in 1987.

I got stopped at a roadblock where I think they were checking for insurance and trying to sniff out DUI's. My turn came and I informed the officer standing next to my car that was I was in possession of a concealed firearms permit and lawfully armed. This was a young stud. Black gloves in the south Florida heat. Suddenly I'm staring down the muzzle of a drawn GLOCK and that 9mm hole looked about the size of a 12 bore as it nearly nudged my temple. What really worried me was the fact that his hand was so visibly shaking his knuckles were white and his finger was on the trigger of that Glock M17. I assumed my best instructors voice tone (I was then and still am an NRA certified firearms Instructor) and tried to calmly talk him down, but he was screaming at me too loudly to hear my voice or the voice of his much older partner who was screaming at him to quit being an idiot and re-holster! This guy made me get out of my car, put my hands on my head and walk backward until I could feel the muzzle pressed firmly against my spine. Then he drew my weapon from it's holster concealed behind my right hip and proceeded to hand me off to his partner while he repeatedly ran the serial number on my gun, over and over. His partner was pleading with me not to sue and cursing his young charge for being a macho idiot.

When the guy came back he was looking a bit embarrassed since my name and personal data had rung a bell with the Dept of Corrections as being a recent employee. Then he launches into this harangue about why did I feel the need to carry a gun since I no longer wore a badge? I looked him up and down as he handed me back my piece (cleared and locked) and my mags with directions to load up when I was blocks away. I finally said that there were those folks for whom an explanation is not needed and those for whom an explanation is simply not possible. He looked confused but his partner got it. As I pulled away he was telling the kid that HE was the sole reason for taking early retirement. Of course I didn't sue them, it never even entered my mind and being a first year law student at the time, I also knew I had no standing. No case. Still I thought about writing the Chief of Police but figured he'd probably get a pat on the back. Such is the depth of the institutional illness. It is also progressing as the experiences post Hurricane Katrina seem to suggest.

****If your open display of a firearm is causing panic, you could be charged with inducing panic, Weiner said. If you carry it onto private property, you could be charged with trespassing, he said. ****

Years ago I carried an apple into my mother-in-law’s house.
She went into a panic! “Arent you afraid of ALAR”! she screamed.
“No”! I said as I took a bite.

Could I be charged with inducing panic?

what if I carried a “lawn Dart”, croquet mallet, baseball bat, piece of water pipe,

Or a coppy of “GREMLINS”. That also set my mother in law off once.
And my worthless brother-in-law (If you know him he probably owes you money) is just as bad.

One of the things I have continually noticed since those days is the sick subculture of LEOs that has sprung up across the nation

Thanks for the post.

The problem I see is the homogenization of Police Training.

When Bill Clinton said he would put 100,000 new police officers on the street he was not kidding. But people also did not understand what he meant.

Federal funding for various weapons and tactics courses has resulted in a situation where it is perfectly plausible for California State Troopers to mug a little old lady in her home in New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina for possession of a curio pistol in full view of television crews at the behest of the New Orleans Mayor.

You would have had a hard time finding someone at any level of government to pull that kind of crap as recently as the 60's.

"Houston, we have a problem."

Best regards,

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