Posted on 03/06/2008 10:27:33 AM PST by gandalftb
In a move that could be the most enduring imprint of U.S. influence in the Arab world, American military officials in Baghdad have begun a crash program to outfit the entire Iraqi army with M-16 rifles.
The initiative marks a sharp break for a culture steeped in the traditions of the Soviet-era AK-47 Kalashnikov assault rifle, a symbol of revolutionary zeal and third-world simplicity that is ubiquitous among the militaries of the Middle East.
"We in the U.S. know that the M-16 is superior to the AK ... it's more durable," said Army Col. Stephen Scott, who's in charge of helping the Iraqi army get all the equipment it needs to outfit its forces.
"The Iraqis have embraced that ... and the fact that it is U.S. manufactured and supplied. They are very big on U.S.-produced [foreign military sales] materials," he said in an interview with military bloggers this month.
So far, the U.S. military has helped the Iraqi army purchase 43,000 rifles - a mix of full-stock M-16A2s and compact M-4 carbines. Another 50,000 rifles are currently on order, and the objective is to outfit the entire Iraqi army with 165,000 American rifles in a one-for-one replacement of the AK-47.
"Our goal is to give every Iraqi soldier an M-16A2 or an M-4," Scott said. "And as the Iraqi army grows, we will adjust."
Scott added the mass of AK-47s from various manufacturers floating through the Iraqi army's inventory could cause maintenance and reliability problems. Getting both U.S. and Iraqi forces on the same page when it comes to basic weaponry is part of the argument for M-16 outfitting.
"I'm also a fan of AKs," Scott said. "But keep in mind most of these AKs have been sitting around in bunkers or whatnot for 30 or 40 years [and] are in various stages of disrepair."
A variety of U.S. troops, including SEALs, Marines and Soldiers - and even civilian contractors - are training Iraqis on the M-16 and M-4 throughout the country. One civilian trainer told Military.com during a brief interview in Iraq that the Iraqi soldiers are a little behind the average American trooper when it comes to learning the various parts and breakdown of the M-16, but they're enthusiastic and quick learners on the range.
After seeing some of the firing range training himself, Scott added that he "asked the Iraqis how they liked the weapon and they said it was far superior, it was more accurate ... and more reliable."
"I think the transition is almost transparent from those older AKs," he said.
A system that registers each rifle with the individual who receives it using biometric data such as thumb prints and eye scans is meant to address concerns over U.S. weapons winding up in enemy hands. A July 2007 Government Accountability Office report concluded that as many as 190,000 weapons delivered to the Iraqi army were not accounted for and could've wound up in terrorist caches.
That's something Scott isn't going to allow on his watch.
"These Iraqi soldiers know that this weapon becomes part of their person," he said. "And they also know that they are responsible and accountable for that weapon."
And from the looks of it, Iraqi soldiers aren't willing to hand them over to the bad guys.
"Most of the soldiers think they will be just like the Americans, and that is making them very happy," said Capt. Rafaat Mejal Ahmed, the Iraqi 1st Division weapons and ammunition officer, in a Marine Corps release. "They think the modern technology will make them more powerful."
I have a Norinco Sporter and know what you are talking about, I can shoot clean through an oak tree of 36” diameter with it and still pack enough punch to penetrate 3/4” plywood using full metal jacket ammo. Surplus russian ammo with soft lead load would only go just past halfway of tree trunk. AK is a good gun for guerilla type combatant but I would prefer an M14 type weapon for profesional military.
I guess what I’m most concerned with is making sure an enemy combatant can’t get off another shot or two after being hit. With a 7.62 that isn’t much of a problem. A 6.8 would be a step in the right direction, but I’m not sure why it would be better than going all the way to a 7.62.
This is my rifle. There are many others like it, but this one is mine ...
In addition to everything said before (mainly, you can carry a lot more 223 rounds than 762) a study done by the Army infantry department in WW-II found that in an infantry engagement only 25% of infantry men fired their rifles. The exception was the BAR man (one per squad), who fired 90% of the time.
Psychologically, a man with an automatic rifle is more likely to believe that he can affect the outcome of an engagement. If you’re going to be firing on AUTO your ammo will last longer if it’s 223 than 762. The difference in lethality is less important than getting lead on target.
6.8SPC is designed to fit in an M-16 magazine. Just change the upper to the 6.8SPC barrel. The greater mass of the bullet is less affected by wind and delivers more terminal energy.
Does it have the same diameter only longer?
I do like the idea of more stopping power.
Very good. Thanks for the link.
I just did a search @ Bushmaster for a 7.62. They make a sniper rifle (bolt action), but not the AR-10 type.
But, as I remember, the problem was that the soldiers were using armor-piercing rounds, so the rounds would go right through the Somalis, and not fragment and do internal damage. Although higher-caliber rounds always help. But you’ll have less of them. And it’s true what they say - you can never have too much ammo!
I have shot both .223 AK & AR... both work...
my AK did not jam, my friends LMT M4 did
Thanks. I appreciate the information related to the 6.8 vs 7.62. These links have helped a lot.
My nephew is on his second tour over there and he tells me that nobody carries their weapons wet with anything. They all use dry lube.
No kidding. The M16 is a great gun, if you can take care of it...and not leave it outside of the tent in a sandstorm.
With some Blackhawk gear, you could carry more than 6 magazines of 7.62.
=)
Heckler and Koch make the 416.
People like this are one of the reasons we are still fighting in Iraq and that ammo prices are going through the roof.
If we were fighting poodles in a sterile Clean Room the M-16 would be the ticket.
Fighting Jihadis in the real world the M-16 and the .223 round are at a disadvantage - it just doesn't have the stopping power of the AK and is too susceptible to malfunction from a dirty environmenmt.
This poodle shooter and round got a lot of our guys killed in Nam and I have hated it ever since.
My Son in Law has a M-16 in .308, that’s a real mean little motor scooter. .
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