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SO MUCH FOR “PARTY DISCIPLINE”
Right-Wing Nut House ^ | March 06, 2008 | by Rick Moran

Posted on 03/06/2008 7:59:04 AM PST by jdm

Even if Hillary Clinton had wrapped up the Democratic party nomination for president on Super Tuesday in early February as most expected her to do, the problem of what to do with Florida and Michigan delegates would have remained.

That’s because the Democratic National Committee, in what might be termed a fit of pique, took away all of those states’ delegates as a result of their violation of primary scheduling rules (while also preventing candidates from campaigning in those states). At the time this occurred, I couldn’t have been the only observer who wondered how a national party could disenfranchise two of the biggest states in the union and not suffer untoward consequences. At the very least, by denying the delegate’s credentials from those two states – states that have proven competitive in most national elections – the DNC risked losing the presidential election because of their slavish adherence to rules designed to enforce party discipline.

Contrast the behavior of the Democratic National Committee with their counterparts at the RNC. The Republicans, also seeking to get control of the primary process, took away half the delegates from Florida, Michigan, South Carolina, Wyoming, and New Hampshire – also as a result of their violations of primary scheduling rules. They also allowed full participation by all candidates in those primaries.

As a result, while there was some grumbling and even some legal challenges, the primaries went forward on the Republican side with little or no backlash. (Note: There may yet be a blow up on this issue for Republicans. But it probably won’t rise to the level of what the Democrats are going through.)

Now the Democrats are in a pickle of their own making. With Hillary Clinton desperate for delegates and the Michigan and Florida state parties still seething, a push is now underway to either seat delegates who were chosen during the illegal primaries by forcing a showdown at the convention with the credentials committee or hold some kind of “re-vote” with the blessing of the DNC that would allow full delegate participation in the convention from those two states.

Howard Dean will not bend the party rules to grandfather in the disputed delegates from Michigan and Florida, the Democratic party chairman said in a statement today.

Instead, he put the state parties on notice: either they can wait and allow the credentials committee to decide whether to seat their delegates, or submit to a re-vote sanctioned under DNC rules. “We look forward to receiving their proposals should they decide to submit new delegate selection plans and will review those plans at that time,” he said in the statement.

“Everyone seems to be asking what the DNC will do,” a Democrat close to Dean said. “But the question is: what will the state parties do.”

Dean’s statement implies that he has no intention of changing the rules to accommodate any solution proposed by the candidates or the state parties. There has been some suggestion that the two remaining presidential candidates might try to broker a deal among themselves. His line in the sand narrows the options for Hillary Clinton’s campaign because it is unlikely that a credentials committee would endorse a delegation congenial to her mathematical interests.

In other words, the ruling last November that disenfranchised Michigan and Florida really doesn’t count. If the two states want representation at the convention, all they have to do is submit a plan to the DNC on how they wish to choose the delegates and they will sanction it.

So much for party discipline.

Dean’s blunder has the potential of leaving a trail of blood all the way from Denver to the November election. By placing the burden of holding a nominating contest on the state parties, he effectively washes the DNC’s hands of any responsibility for maintaining discipline in the face of rank defiance by local entities.

Why not stick to your guns and enforce the original decision? And if that decision was wrong – and supporters of both candidates believe it was – Dean should resign and allow his successor to clean up the mess. Paying for do-over primaries in both states would be an expensive proposition. A primary in Michigan would cost taxpayers in that cash-strapped state $10-12 million – a not inconsiderable sum even if the candidates were to pay for the two primaries as some have suggested. (The cost of a do-over primary in Florida is estimated at $15 million.)

Then there are the organization challenges of staffing the polling places, polling machine maintenance, absentee ballots, and setting up the whole infrastructure necessary to hold the contests. Could all of that be done in just a few months?

Florida would appear to be hesitant:

Karen Thurman, the chair of the Florida Democratic Party, issued a statement late Wednesday that seemed to discount the possibility of a second primary.

“It is important also that we are clear about one issue. At this time, no suggested alternative process has been able to meet three specific and necessary requirements: the full participation from both candidates, a guaranteed commitment of the millions of dollars it will cost to conduct the event and a detailed election plan that would enfranchise all Florida Democrats, including our military service members serving in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere.”

“The Florida Democratic Party cannot consider any alternative that does not meet these requirements. Indeed, it is very possible that no satisfactory alternative plan will emerge, in which case Florida Democrats will remain committed to seating the delegates allocated by the January 29th primary.”

Granholm seems to have ruled out a primary altogether:

Granholm made it clear her first choice would be to find a way to seat the delegates from the January 15 Michigan primary, but acknowledged the fact that Barack Obama was not on the ballot creates a fairness issue.

“It could not be a primary because a primary is publicly paid for, and the taxpayers would not spend any more tax dollars on a primary. So if there’s anything it would have to be a caucus, but we’d have to have a way to pay for it without taxpayer dollars.”

What an unholy mess.

The Michigan Democratic party is up for a do-over primary but the governor won’t allow it. The Florida Democrats want the result of their original primary accepted and can see no alternative primary or caucus scenario.

Can you say “trainwreck?”

Dean’s “solution” is useless. No money – no primary. And it is apparent that Florida Democrats have dug in their heels and want their $15 million primary results validated.

If this is a game of chicken between the national and state parties, Denver would seem to be where the two sides will collide. If the national party prevails in the credentials committee (which is almost guaranteed), they will make 6 million Democratic voters in Florida and Michigan very unhappy. If Clinton were to somehow win the day and have those delegates seated, how many millions of unhappy Obama supporters will there be?

A Hobbesian choice to be sure. And one for which Howard Dean is completely responsible.

UPDATE

Howard Dean sums up the Democrats problem in one quote from this morning’s GMA:

“They have to be seated within the rules,” Dean said on “GMA.” “What you cannot do is change the rules in the middle of the contest.”

Of course they’re trying to change the rules in the middle of the race. That’s because the DNC ruled originally that the states were ineligible! And if they can’t change that rule why are we even bothering with all of this?

Howard Dean is a dunce, don’t you think?


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: democrats; discipline; republicans
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1 posted on 03/06/2008 7:59:05 AM PST by jdm
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To: jdm

More popcorn anyone?


2 posted on 03/06/2008 8:04:55 AM PST by Thrownatbirth (.....Iraq Invasion fan since '91.)
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To: jdm
Pelosi told Dean to butt out of the process because Pelosi already knows the fix is in for Hillary. Pelosi has helped arrange the Super-delegates in a way that will give Hillary the victory even without Florida or Michigan and any attempt to tinker with it could tick-off the Supers.
3 posted on 03/06/2008 8:05:36 AM PST by tobyhill (The media lies so much the truth is the exception)
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To: jdm

4 posted on 03/06/2008 8:11:48 AM PST by vietvet67
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To: jdm

“Of course they’re trying to change the rules in the middle of the race.”

Rules? In knife fight? No rules.


5 posted on 03/06/2008 8:15:43 AM PST by swain_forkbeard (Rationality may not be sufficient, but it is necessary.)
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To: jdm

“They have to be seated within the rules,” Dean said on “GMA.” “What you cannot do is change the rules in the middle of the contest.”

Except in Florida during a presidential election in 2000.


6 posted on 03/06/2008 8:16:52 AM PST by Hacklehead (Crush the liberals, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the hippies.)
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To: jdm
“What you cannot do is change the rules in the middle of the contest.”

This statement is so laughable, considering that is exactly what the Dems tried to do in the 2000 election to steal it for Gore.

7 posted on 03/06/2008 8:19:48 AM PST by CA Conservative
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To: jdm

Heard a good quote on Medved yeterday.paraphrsing here.

If you think the democratic primary is a nightmare you now see what universal healthcare under a democrat would look like.


8 posted on 03/06/2008 8:20:05 AM PST by lakeman
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To: jdm

>> So if there’s anything it would have to be a caucus

Ah, the ol’ unintended consequences thing rears its head.

a) Hillary pounds on the table for the delegates to be counted, but
b) a “fairness” issue with giving Hillary delegates from bogus elections is perceived, so
c) a do-over is mandated, but
d) The “unfairness” issue of taxpayers picking up the tab is recognized, however
e) a primary election MUST be taxpayer-funded, so
f) caucuses are seen as the way out, therefore
g) caucuses are held, which
h) Obama wins (as usual).

Roll over Rube Goldberg! You’ve met your match in the Donkees.


9 posted on 03/06/2008 8:23:42 AM PST by Nervous Tick (I've decided to vote for John McCain in December. It's the Maverick Thing To Do.)
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To: jdm

And they want to run the country?


10 posted on 03/06/2008 8:24:20 AM PST by dfwgator (11+7+15=3 Heismans)
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To: jdm

Per WTKK talk this AM, Hillary’s lawyers are preparing to file suit to redo the FL and MI primaries and have them count for her. I LOVE the smell of psychotic liberals in the morning!


11 posted on 03/06/2008 8:27:56 AM PST by pabianice
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To: jdm
"Howard Dean is a dunce, don’t you think?"

Oh, is that what the "D" after his name means?

12 posted on 03/06/2008 8:31:06 AM PST by Designer (We are SO scrood!)
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To: AdmSmith; Berosus; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; george76; ...

[Thanks again, GAgal, for the link to this topic. The northeast’s Teflon Dean will probably survive this, but I’m only saying this because I’ve predicted wrong things about that a-hole in the past, and superstitiously hope the opposite will happen as a result of my prediction. :’)]

[snip] the Democratic National Committee, in what might be termed a fit of pique, took away all of those states’ delegates as a result of their violation of primary scheduling rules (while also preventing candidates from campaigning in those states)... The Republicans, also seeking to get control of the primary process, took away half the delegates from Florida, Michigan, South Carolina, Wyoming, and New Hampshire - also as a result of their violations of primary scheduling rules. They also allowed full participation by all candidates in those primaries... With Hillary Clinton desperate for delegates and the Michigan and Florida state parties still seething, a push is now underway to either seat delegates who were chosen during the illegal primaries by forcing a showdown at the convention with the credentials committee or hold some kind of “re-vote” with the blessing of the DNC that would allow full delegate participation in the convention from those two states... Dean’s statement implies that he has no intention of changing the rules to accommodate any solution proposed by the candidates or the state parties... In other words, the ruling last November that disenfranchised Michigan and Florida really doesn’t count. If the two states want representation at the convention, all they have to do is submit a plan to the DNC on how they wish to choose the delegates and they will sanction it. So much for party discipline... Why not stick to your guns and enforce the original decision? And if that decision was wrong - and supporters of both candidates believe it was - Dean should resign and allow his successor to clean up the mess. Paying for do-over primaries in both states would be an expensive proposition. A primary in Michigan would cost taxpayers... Karen Thurman, the chair of the Florida Democratic Party, issued a statement late Wednesday that seemed to discount the possibility of a second primary... “At this time, no suggested alternative process has been able to meet three specific and necessary requirements... including [enfranchising] our military service members [a half-dozen or so remain staunch Democrats] serving in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere.” ...[Michigan Governor] Granholm made it clear her first choice would be to find a way to seat the delegates from the January 15 Michigan primary, but acknowledged the fact that Barack Obama was not on the ballot creates a fairness issue. “It could not be a primary because a primary is publicly paid for, and the taxpayers would not spend any more tax dollars on a primary. So if there’s anything it would have to be a caucus, but we’d have to have a way to pay for it without taxpayer dollars.” ...The Michigan Democratic party is up for a do-over primary but the governor won’t allow it. The Florida Democrats want the result of their original primary accepted and can see no alternative primary or caucus scenario... Dean’s “solution” is useless. No money - no primary... If the national party prevails in the credentials committee (which is almost guaranteed), they will make 6 million Democratic voters in Florida and Michigan very unhappy. If Clinton were to somehow win the day and have those delegates seated, how many millions of unhappy Obama supporters will there be? A Hobbesian choice to be sure. And one for which Howard Dean is completely responsible... “They have to be seated within the rules,” Dean said on “GMA.” “What you cannot do is change the rules in the middle of the contest.” Of course they’re trying to change the rules in the middle of the race. That’s because the DNC ruled originally that the states were ineligible! And if they can’t change that rule why are we even bothering with all of this? [unsnip]


13 posted on 03/06/2008 8:43:15 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/______________________Profile updated Saturday, March 1, 2008)
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To: jdm
BWAAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

It's funny that the DNC sought to punish FL and MI because they wanted a bigger and earlier say in the primary process. Now, their exclusion has put them in a position to be king-makers due to the close heat. If these states play their cards right, they can come out of this with a lot of "beholdings" from the winning rat...

BRING ON THE POPCORN! THIS IS BETTER THAN A NIGHT AT THE FIGHTS!

14 posted on 03/06/2008 8:46:22 AM PST by Dubh_Ghlase (In the land of Clinton, where the shadows lie...)
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To: Thrownatbirth

Yes, more popcorn. With butter thanks.

This is so beyond good it’s flat out fun now. Both states pretty much are now poised to be put in the corner and told to rerun their primaries or do a caucus.
It’s not going to most likely be decisive but it’s going to cost both candidates a lot of money.

But that hasn’t stopped Shrillary from declaring her “victories” in both Michigan and Florida.

Crist, the gov in Florida has already offered to support another primary. What a guy! Don’t see how Michigan can refuse to do likewise after all the yelling.

Hillary lost 45% of the vote to nobody there. You gotta love it.


15 posted on 03/06/2008 8:50:41 AM PST by romanesq
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To: pabianice

I believe I read that Obama has said he’d like to means test social security. If so, I hope retirement communities througout FL stock up on defibrillators, because Hillary will flood the state with ads featuring Barack promising that.


16 posted on 03/06/2008 8:57:15 AM PST by GAgal
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To: jdm
Howard Dean is a dunce, don’t you think?

Yup. A dunce licensed to practice medicine. Now that's scary.

17 posted on 03/06/2008 9:05:13 AM PST by freespirited (All great truths begin as blasphemies. -- George Bernard Shaw)
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To: jdm
The Democrat bigwigs change the rules already when they disenfranchised voters from Florida and Michigan. Many Florida and Michigan voters are Black and Latino; a not so subtle form of racism! No justice no peace!
18 posted on 03/06/2008 9:39:36 AM PST by ricks_place
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Democratic Debacle (1964 convention, repercussions today)
America Heritage | July 2004 (cover date) | Joshua Zeitz
Posted on 07/28/2004 12:59:49 AM EDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1179981/posts


19 posted on 03/06/2008 10:31:06 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/______________________Profile updated Saturday, March 1, 2008)
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To: romanesq

If they have a redo in Michigan, all that voted Republican should claim that the only reason they voted Republican was because there was no Democrat contest. Besides, if they are going to use my tax dollars to do this then I ought to be able to vote.


20 posted on 03/06/2008 5:06:54 PM PST by westmichman ( God said: "They cry 'peace! peace!' but there is no peace. Jeremiah 6:14)
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