Posted on 02/25/2008 12:33:54 PM PST by BGHater
The Oxford laboratory that declared the Turin Shroud to be a medieval fake 20 years ago is investigating claims that its findings were wrong.
The head of the world-renowned laboratory has admitted that carbon dating tests it carried out on Christendom's most famous relic may be inaccurate.
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Professor Christopher Ramsey, the director of the Oxford University Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit, said he was treating seriously a new theory suggesting that contamination had skewed the results.
Though he stressed that he would be surprised if the supposedly definitive 1988 tests were shown to be far out - especially "a thousand years wrong" - he insisted that he was keeping an open mind.
The development will re-ignite speculation about the four-metre linen sheet, which many believe bears the miraculous image of the crucified Christ.
The original carbon dating was carried out on a sample by researchers working separately in laboratories in Zurich and Arizona as well as Oxford.
To the dismay of Christians, the researchers concluded that the shroud was created between 1260 and 1390, and was therefore likely to be a forgery devised in the Middle Ages.
Even Anastasio Alberto Ballestrero, the then Cardinal of Turin, conceded that the relic was probably a hoax.
There have been numerous theories purporting to explain how the tests could have produced false results, but so far they have all been rejected by the scientific establishment.
Many people remain convinced that the shroud is genuine.
Prof Ramsey, an expert in the use of carbon dating in archeological research, is conducting fresh experiments that could explain how a genuinely old linen could produce "younger" dates.
The results, which are due next month, will form part of a documentary on the Turin Shroud that is being broadcast on BBC 2 on Easter Saturday.
David Rolfe, the director of the documentary, said it was hugely significant that Prof Ramsey had thought it necessary to carry out further tests that could challenge the original dating.
He said that previous hypotheses, put forward to explain how the cloth could be older than the 1988 results suggested, had been "rejected out of hand".
"The main reason is that the contamination levels on the cloth that would have been needed to distort the results would have to be equivalent to the actual sample itself," he said.
"But this new theory only requires two per cent contamination to skew the results by 1,500 years. Moreover, it springs from published data about the behaviour of carbon-14 in the atmosphere which was unknown when the original tests were carried out 20 years ago."
Mr Rolfe added that the documentary, presented by Rageh Omaar, the former BBC correspondent, would also contain new archeological and historical evidence supporting claims that the shroud was a genuine burial cloth.
The film will focus on two other recorded relics, the Shroud of Constantinople, which is said to have been stolen by Crusaders in 1204, and the Shroud of Jerusalem that wrapped Jesus's body and which, according to John's Gospel, had such a profound effect when it was discovered.
According to Mr Rolfe, the documentary will produce convincing evidence that these are one and the same as the Shroud of Turin, adding credence to the belief that it dates back to Christ's death.
I’m not questioning the notion that someone could create a picture with the same attributes . . . I’m saying that nobody has ever been able to replicate the image on the Shroud in its entirety — with all of its attributes including its lack of pigmentation and lack of any carbon signature that would indicate some kind of heat application.
Actually, there is quite a bit of history for the Shroud prior to late medieval times including a drawing of it in the Hungarian Pray Codex which is accurately dated to the 12th Century... 150 years prior to the first display of the Shroud in our documented history. Another example is a medallion showing the Shroud accurately dated to the 11th Century. There is also the Sermon of Gregory Referendarius, the Arch Deacon of the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople, in which he accurately describes the Shroud as showing the nude body, both front and back. Gregory's sermon was delivered on the occasion of the Image of Edessa being brought to Constantinople on August 15th 944... 10th Century.
The inventory of the Hagia Sophia included "The Shroud of our Lord" at the time of the sacking of Constantinople by French Knights during the 4th Crusade. One of the primary knights in the leadership of the 4th Crusade was one Geoffrey de Charny... 200 years later the Shroud turns up in the possession of one Geoffrey de Charney.
The younger de Charney was no ordinary knight. He was the author of the French Code of Chivalry and was also the King Philip VI's Standard Bearer, the exemplary knight who had been selected by the King to fight at his side and carry the King's banner in battle.
It’s not a skeptic site, as the false “Facts” at the bottom attest. He appears to do his research on Wikipedia too, which fits somehow.
While Jesus was descended from Royalty... and God could be considered to be very wealthy... Jesus himself probably came from a middle class income. If his father was a carpenter and he was as well, he was an artisan who was paid for his work... not a wealthy man.
OK. How was it done?
It is not Jesus!
Do you mean something like this?
How do we know that, and even if true, how do you extract from that that Joseph was Christ's uncle, as opposed to cousin or grandfather?
The tin miner legends came from Britain. Spain had James, France had Lazarus, and with those examples I guess Britain couldn't resisting staking a claim on a New Testament figure.
Food for thought... Thanks Alberta.
I became convinced of the Shroud's authenticity after seeing a remarkably balanced presentation of the subject on one of those MSM network shows (60 Minutes, 20/20, or something like that).
At the end of the segment the interviewer asked one of the lead investigators what his conclusion was. The lead investigator was some renowned archaeologist from an Ivy League school (maybe Columbia) who happened to be Jewish. He tried to avoid answering the question by suggesting that he was only presenting facts related to his field of expertise, wasn't brought in to make any solid determinations, etc. But the host of the show didn't let him off the hook.
The guy finally admitted that he could only conclude that this was the burial shroud of Jesus Christ.
"And you're Jewish," the host said.
"Yes," the guy said, in a voice that you could barely hear, "And to be honest with you, I haven't even begun to think of the religious implications of this whole thing."
I’ve seen references not only to blood being on the Shroud but that it’s type AB blood. Other blood analyzed recently from two weeping icons in Italy and in the well-known bleeding Host miracle at Lanciano, Italy, also came up with AB blood. If anyone is faking each instance of Jesus’ blood, they sure are doing a good job keeping it consistent. This Catholic chooses to believe.
Hasn't happened yet...
LOL.
Or great uncle... matters NOT Joseph had to be related to Christ to collect his body.
The tin miner legends came from Britain. Spain had James, France had Lazarus, and with those examples I guess Britain couldn't resisting staking a claim on a New Testament figure.
Imagine that, legends come from where the 'tin mines' were located. Now where did Mary the mother of Christ go?
I don’t think those connections to the modern Shroud are very well-founded, but even if they were, it does not change the objection. A thousand years of silence is damning.
“moneymaker”?
The manner of Jesus' burial is described in a lot of detail in the Gospel of John, Chapters 19 and 20.
But builders, contractors made very good money - and there was plenty of building going on at the time just 3+ miles from Nazareth - the city of Sepphoris =
the Greek word "tekton" means not merely a carpenter but a construction engineer, or architect. A tekton could build a house, construct a bridge, or design a temple...
History is a fascinating subject - and when you mix it with archeology, it really gets interesting.
you might have fun reading up on Sepphoris and "tekon" nee Craftsman/Engineer - there's just no end to the roads it can take you.
I find it sad that many people wont believe, don't want to know, anything that is not in the Bible...
It doesn't take away, one whit, from Jesus' mission and value by His not being poor - but educated and skilled...
Sepphoris was a 'shining city on the hill' easily seen from Nazareth - a short walk in those days.
It was the crossroads of trade and culture from many lands - Greek and Latin were widely spoken. the 'locals' were likely not the backwards, poverty stricken people some take comfort in believing...
Take the falsehoods, for example, that was foisted - knowingly and deliberately - on Mary Magdalene.
The truth shall set you free...and it's a fun journey that never ends
There is no blood on the Shroud: all the forensic tests specific for blood have failed18 (although some investigators19 unrigorously concluded that blood was present after conducting numerous forensic tests for iron, protein, albumin, etc., which came up positive because these materials are indeed on the Shroud in the form of tempera paint). Old blood is not bright red, and no amount of bilirubin20 can explain that away. Real blood mats on hair, and does not form perfect rivulets and spiral flows. Real blood does not contain red ochre, vermilion, and alizarin red pigments. Real blood and its organic derivatives have refractive indices much less than red ochre or vermilion, and they can be easily distinguished using Becke line movement under a light microscope. McCrone's examination of the red particles on the Shroud samples revealed no blood or blood derivatives.
http://www.freeinquiry.com/skeptic/shroud/as/schafersman.html
You didn’t answer how we know that Joseph of A. was related to Jesus.
As for Mary, I don’t know. 1st century records of her drop after the early chapters of Acts.
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