No, the South sold us out long before the race was down to Huck and McCain. Rudy was first in the polls until a few months before the vote. Then they went with McCain and Huck over the more conservative Thompson, Romney and Hunter. Huck is conservative on life but that is about it. He repeatedly lied about Romney and other candidates during the Primary saying he (Huck) was the only one who supported a Federal Marraige Amendment. The problem when you start selling your Christianity on your sleeve is that when you start lying it makes all of us who follow Jesus look bad.
Huck went out of his way to insult Mormons. It is the same thing McCain did to Evangelicals in 2000. Most Evangelicals didn't vote for McCain in 2000 b/c he dissed them openly. Huck did the same thing to Mormons more than once this go around. Rush excoriated him for it. Just as Rush excoriated McCain for it in 2000.
>>Look at Utah results - 90% for Mitt, and 5% for McCain, 1% for Huckabee??? Gee, I wonder why that happened
Most Utahn's didn't know who Romney was until he came in to save them from the debt and scandal ridden Olympics. Mo Udall didn't get any traction in Utah when he ran for President.
Now on to the tired cult charges...
>>>1. They basically believe in a prophetic era in North America that cannot be substantiated by any historical facts, no findings, no nothing, etc...
You mean you are going to believe the same scientists that gave us "Global Warming" as some kind of authority on Book of Mormon evidences? That's rich. Google "Izapa stela 5" or "Olmecs" and "Iron ore" or "Chiasmus". Though I don't expect evidentiary support to convince you. The same scientists tried to say the Bible was false b/c it mentions lions in Israel which was unsupported by the archeological evidence. Finally, in 1947 someone found Lion bones in Israel. Of course it didn't convert any of the scientists they just move on to another topic. Like, "where is the Ark?".
>>>>Polygamy was practiced by Joseph Smith when it was clearly forbidden by God in Old and New Testament
Try googling the Prophet Nathan and "Thus saith the Lord".... aww forget it here is the reference. Notice how it says "thus saith the Lord" when Nathan gave David extra wives but condemned him for adultery outside of marraige and killing Uriah.
2 Sam. 12:7-9 7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; 8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things. 9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.
Martin Luther and St. Augustine admitted the OT polygamy was sanctioned by God. It's fine with me if you choose not believe in it's modern day practice, as I don't either, but the OT biblical pronouncements on the subject don't fit your agenda.
>>>There was a war in Mexico, and when all of the men had to go and fight, Joseph Smith
As Romney once said in the debate to Huckabee in reference to his economic policies. "Facts are stubborn things." And "You Make up Facts faster than you talk." Joseph Smith was killed before the Mormon Battalion was called up to March for the War on Mexico. BTW, the Mormon Battallion has the US military record for longest overland march. It's something I'm proud of.
>>>3. Joseph Smith brought a message to the people that the Mormons are God’s preserved priesthood that he is restoring for our day - a time like no other.
Yup. I agree you don't have any Priesthood authority. It's pretty simple really. Catholics claim the "original" authority. Protestants claim Catholics lost it on the way and we got the "reformation". Mormons claim a reformation couldn't get it back but God had to with a "restoration". So we are a restorationsist church. (Incidentally, Thompson belongs to a restorationist Christian church which rejects the post apostolic creeds as well).
>>Cast a vote the American Way
My Mormon ancestors (as well as Romney's) converted in the 1840's here in America, and before the Restoration of 1830 some family lines go back to the Founding Fathers in the 1700's and 1600's. So a vote for Romney would have been a very American thing to do.
But anyway. Romney is out of the race so this discussion we are having is beating a dead horse a bit. I won't vote for Huck just as Evangelicals wouldn't vote for McCain in 2000. He could apologize for lying about my faith I suppose, which would be the "Christian" thing to do. An apology would help me see him more favorably but I still wouldn't vote for him based on his liberalism.
I don’t know where to begin, but I’ll try.
>> Then they went with McCain and Huck over the more conservative Thompson, Romney and Hunter.
Read all the Romney quotes in this article here:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2006/12/09/romneys_record_on_gays_questioned_after_1994_letter_re_emerges/
Now he supports it -
Here’s the big flipflop again:
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Aug31/0,4670,2008CandidatesGayMarriage,00.html
Your theory of the whole South thing needs some fine tuning. And Mitt isn’t a liar? I could spend the time and list at least 10 or 15 Mitt flip-flops - can you do the same for Huckabee? Whether you agree or disagree with him, he is firm in his position. I don’t know how you see Romney as some sort of “man of integrity, a real conservative”??? I guess some people want to believe something bad enough ...
>> selling your Christianity on your sleeve is that when you start lying it makes all of us who follow Jesus look bad.
Who’s “selling Christianity”? Huckabee doesn’t “hide” his faith, and neither did those who set this country up. How come you have so much to write, but no sources for your slander?
I believe Mormon’s are good people, just mislead. Romney is a skilled politician and illusionist - just like the crystal rubbing (forbidden in the Old Testament), treasure hunting, “you can rub the plates I found while wrapped in a blanket, but you can’t see them” Joseph Smith. Can’t you see the con, my friend?
>> Huck insulted Mormons
Huck made a true statement about Mormon belief. He stated fact - how is that an insult? (Please explain this.)
>> Most Utahn’s didn’t know who Romney was
Since when does the Mormon capitol of the world not know a Mormon is not running for President? You really are in denial!
>> You mean you are going to believe the same scientists
I don’t look to science or else I would be a scientologist ... but rather I define myself as a biblical Christian, not to be defined by Jerry Falwell, Ralph Reed, or whoever. My faith is defined by in whom I believe (Christ), and the fruits of my walk with him. When I said history, I meant that the Old and New Testament has a million verifiable facts lending to its authenticity. Not so with the Book of Mormon.
>> Martin Luther and St. Augustine admitted the OT polygamy was sanctioned by God.
Where’s the source? (you know, it makes your points much more effective) And if they did, so what? That’s just 2 human beings, they don’t think for me. I would ask them to prove their case as well! It’s indisputably forbidden in the New Testament - which would apply to Joseph Smith. However, you didn’t seem to explain why he did it?
>> As Romney once said in the debate to Huckabee in reference to his economic policies. “Facts are stubborn things.” And “You Make up Facts faster than you talk.”
What facts? You just give Mormon defense talking points.
“Faster than you talk” - You may want to slow down on this one yourself because you apparently are taking issue with the wrong person - the two mid-twenty missionaries who came to my house (that have been Mormon their whole lives), and well trained I am sure, told me these things. (By the way, I treated them well and asked them if they wanted to stay for dinner...)
>> So we are a restorationsist church. (Incidentally, Thompson belongs to a restorationist Christian church which rejects the post apostolic creeds as well).
How did Thompson get in this? I could care less about the McCain-Feingold supporter and “actor”.
I think we finally agree on a point! I agree that I don’t have any Priesthood authority - and neither do you or your Mormon church. You can take up this issue with Jesus, because he fulfilled the priesthood. So if you guys want to take the priesthood from Christ - you deny his sacrifice and I am sure he would take issue with that. However, this is precisely my point - Mormon’s (as well as Catholics) are trying to claim intercessory rights between God and man (Hallmark of a cult). Jesus came as the eternal high priest, the curtain in the Holy of Holies was torn in half when he was crucified, and we now have access to God through this “eternal high priest” in Christ. If you want to bring back the priesthood, good luck - because you bring back with it the Law. Live by the Law, and be judged it. Make sure you are observing all of it!
>> My Mormon ancestors ... So a vote for Romney would have been a very American thing to do.
Boy that’s a real stretch ... can you name one Founding Father who was a Mormon?
>> “He could apologize for lying about my faith I suppose”
And where was the lie about your faith? I don’t believe you mentioned it...
In all good will, please try to look at the facts objectively. After the emotion subsides, explore Mormonism from an objective viewpoint, especially Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith did not bear the same “fruits” for Mormonism as did Jesus for Christianity. I know it is hard to really look at something you have been trained to believe your whole life. I will pray for you.
Thank you for listening.
The Book of Mormon states categorically that plural marriage is an abomination in the sight of God.