I don’t know where to begin, but I’ll try.
>> Then they went with McCain and Huck over the more conservative Thompson, Romney and Hunter.
Read all the Romney quotes in this article here:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2006/12/09/romneys_record_on_gays_questioned_after_1994_letter_re_emerges/
Now he supports it -
Here’s the big flipflop again:
http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Aug31/0,4670,2008CandidatesGayMarriage,00.html
Your theory of the whole South thing needs some fine tuning. And Mitt isn’t a liar? I could spend the time and list at least 10 or 15 Mitt flip-flops - can you do the same for Huckabee? Whether you agree or disagree with him, he is firm in his position. I don’t know how you see Romney as some sort of “man of integrity, a real conservative”??? I guess some people want to believe something bad enough ...
>> selling your Christianity on your sleeve is that when you start lying it makes all of us who follow Jesus look bad.
Who’s “selling Christianity”? Huckabee doesn’t “hide” his faith, and neither did those who set this country up. How come you have so much to write, but no sources for your slander?
I believe Mormon’s are good people, just mislead. Romney is a skilled politician and illusionist - just like the crystal rubbing (forbidden in the Old Testament), treasure hunting, “you can rub the plates I found while wrapped in a blanket, but you can’t see them” Joseph Smith. Can’t you see the con, my friend?
>> Huck insulted Mormons
Huck made a true statement about Mormon belief. He stated fact - how is that an insult? (Please explain this.)
>> Most Utahn’s didn’t know who Romney was
Since when does the Mormon capitol of the world not know a Mormon is not running for President? You really are in denial!
>> You mean you are going to believe the same scientists
I don’t look to science or else I would be a scientologist ... but rather I define myself as a biblical Christian, not to be defined by Jerry Falwell, Ralph Reed, or whoever. My faith is defined by in whom I believe (Christ), and the fruits of my walk with him. When I said history, I meant that the Old and New Testament has a million verifiable facts lending to its authenticity. Not so with the Book of Mormon.
>> Martin Luther and St. Augustine admitted the OT polygamy was sanctioned by God.
Where’s the source? (you know, it makes your points much more effective) And if they did, so what? That’s just 2 human beings, they don’t think for me. I would ask them to prove their case as well! It’s indisputably forbidden in the New Testament - which would apply to Joseph Smith. However, you didn’t seem to explain why he did it?
>> As Romney once said in the debate to Huckabee in reference to his economic policies. “Facts are stubborn things.” And “You Make up Facts faster than you talk.”
What facts? You just give Mormon defense talking points.
“Faster than you talk” - You may want to slow down on this one yourself because you apparently are taking issue with the wrong person - the two mid-twenty missionaries who came to my house (that have been Mormon their whole lives), and well trained I am sure, told me these things. (By the way, I treated them well and asked them if they wanted to stay for dinner...)
>> So we are a restorationsist church. (Incidentally, Thompson belongs to a restorationist Christian church which rejects the post apostolic creeds as well).
How did Thompson get in this? I could care less about the McCain-Feingold supporter and “actor”.
I think we finally agree on a point! I agree that I don’t have any Priesthood authority - and neither do you or your Mormon church. You can take up this issue with Jesus, because he fulfilled the priesthood. So if you guys want to take the priesthood from Christ - you deny his sacrifice and I am sure he would take issue with that. However, this is precisely my point - Mormon’s (as well as Catholics) are trying to claim intercessory rights between God and man (Hallmark of a cult). Jesus came as the eternal high priest, the curtain in the Holy of Holies was torn in half when he was crucified, and we now have access to God through this “eternal high priest” in Christ. If you want to bring back the priesthood, good luck - because you bring back with it the Law. Live by the Law, and be judged it. Make sure you are observing all of it!
>> My Mormon ancestors ... So a vote for Romney would have been a very American thing to do.
Boy that’s a real stretch ... can you name one Founding Father who was a Mormon?
>> “He could apologize for lying about my faith I suppose”
And where was the lie about your faith? I don’t believe you mentioned it...
In all good will, please try to look at the facts objectively. After the emotion subsides, explore Mormonism from an objective viewpoint, especially Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith did not bear the same “fruits” for Mormonism as did Jesus for Christianity. I know it is hard to really look at something you have been trained to believe your whole life. I will pray for you.
Thank you for listening.
There is a difference between a candidate supporting and promoting gay things and not actively discriminating against them. Romney has made clear he does not support their cause but will not openly discriminate against them (ie fire someone from a job if they are gay.)
Ann Coulter explained the difference pressty well. But I see in a previous email you already wrote her (as well as Rush Limbaugh's opinions off) (BTW, what are your conservative credentials so we can objectively compare and constrast whether we should trust you over Ann and Rush?)
Coulter also touted Romney's position on gay rights, saying:
COULTER: And of course, if you're working for a Republican candidate, you'll meet some nice heterosexual guys. By the way, before I let that slide, I do want to point out one thing that has been driving me crazy with the media, how they keep describing Mitt Romney's position as being "pro-gays, and that's going to upset right-wingers." Well, you know, screw you, I'm not anti-gay. We're against gay marriage. I don't want gays to be discriminated against. I mean, I think we have, in addition to blacks, I don't know why all gays aren't Republicans. I think we have the pro-gay position, which is anti-crime and for tax cuts. Gays make a lot of money, and they're victims of crime. I mean, the way -- no, they are. They should be with us. But the media portrays us. If they could get away with it, they would start saying, you know, "Mitt Romney, he's pro-civil rights, and that's going to upset conservatives." No. OK. Sorry, go ahead."
Romney from an interview about the matter in 2006.
Lopez: As you know, in recent days the Boston Globe and the New York Times, as well as the Boston newspaper, Bay Windows, have run pieces about your 1994 race against Ted Kennedy and your run for governor that appear to be in conflict with your current position against gay marriage. Are they?
Gov. Romney: These old interviews and stories have frequently been circulated by my opponents ever since I took a stand against the Massachusetts supreme-court ruling on same-sex marriage. This being the political season, it is not surprising this old news has appeared again. But I have made clear since 2003, when the supreme court of Massachusetts redefined marriage by fiat, that my unwavering advocacy for traditional marriage stands side by side with a tolerance and respect for all Americans.
Like the vast majority of Americans, I’ve opposed same-sex marriage, but I’ve also opposed unjust discrimination against anyone, for racial or religious reasons, or for sexual preference. Americans are a tolerant, generous, and kind people. We all oppose bigotry and disparagement. But the debate over same-sex marriage is not a debate over tolerance. It is a debate about the purpose of the institution of marriage and it is a debate about activist judges who make up the law rather than interpret the law.
I agree with 3,000 years of recorded history. I believe marriage is a sacred institution between a man and a woman and I have been rock solid in my support of traditional marriage. Marriage is first and foremost about nurturing and developing children. It’s unfortunate that those who choose to defend the institution of marriage are often demonized.
Lopez: And what about the 1994 letter to the Log Cabin Republicans where you indicated you would support the Federal Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA) and seemed open to changing the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy in the military? Are those your positions today?
Gov. Romney: No. I don’t see the need for new or special legislation. My experience over the past several years as governor has convinced me that ENDA would be an overly broad law that would open a litigation floodgate and unfairly penalize employers at the hands of activist judges.
As for military policy and the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, I trust the counsel of those in uniform who have set these policies over a dozen years ago. I agree with President Bush’s decision to maintain this policy and I would do the same.
Lopez: Congressman Harold Ford and 33 other Democrat House members voted for a federal marriage amendment this year; you don’t hear a whole lot of coverage of facts like that — or criticisms that they might be as mean and hateful as Republicans who vote similarly are regularly characterized. Does the mainstream media have double standards for Republicans?
Gov. Romney: Well, they do tend to ignore a lot of facts on this issue. How many people have heard that marriage amendments or referendums this year passed by large margins including by 84 percent in Tennessee; 84 percent in South Carolina, 58 percent in Virginia, and by 59 percent in Wisconsin? In 2004 similar measures passed by wide margins in 13 states. California passed a referendum by 61 percent opposing same-sex marriage in 2000. This is a mainstream issue on which most Americans are fairly united but coverage often doesn’t reflect that.
Try Googling the Urim and Thummim (seer stone) in the OT. There are quite a few referencs to them and a few to the stone in Book of Revelations. Instead of admitting your previous error (about polygamy in the OT) and learning more about the OT you are just throwing up more smoke to slander Joseph Smith. Read the Bible some more then get back to slandering Joseph. It will save us both some time.
>>Huck made a true statement about Mormon belief.
It's called a canard. Canard ( ) n. An unfounded or false, deliberately misleading story.
The liberal MSM does this all the time. Let me ask you honestly. Have you ever heard canards about Evanglicals from the MSM? How about the one about the "Christian Terrorist in OKC". It was also a lie, a canard. Huck engaged in liberal style lies against Mormons.
>>>Martin Luther and St. Augustine admitted the OT polygamy was sanctioned by God. Where’s the source?
Google can be your friend. The quotes are only about 10 seconds away if you are really interested. They both have well know quotes on the matter.
>>Boy that’s a real stretch ... can you name one Founding Father who was a Mormon?
You misread what I wrote suprise. The Mormon church was founded in 1830. The Founders of the Mormon church are related (as in ancestry) to the founding fathers. John Winthrop being a prime example who has many Mormon descendants. (Oh and a guy name George Washington has Mormon decendants who joinee the church as well)
>>the two mid-twenty missionaries who came to my house (that have been Mormon their whole lives), and well trained I am sure, told me these things. (By the way, I treated them well and asked them if they wanted to stay for dinner...)
Missionaries are great and well intentioned but lets be honest. Most are young and barely out of their momma's houses. They have faith but what is really amazing is they really aren't trained much at all and go out into the world and deal with Ministers and others who have been training for longer than they have been alive.
I am glad you invited them to dinner. Very gracious of you. Look I am getting a little more contentious than I intend to be. We are jst going to have to agree to disagree about Huckabee. As a Mormon I would vote for an Evangelical like JC Watts or Duncan Hunter for President in a second but I am just not going to do it for Huck.
Things are getting a little thick around here.