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Obama's Dangerous Ignorance ( lack of Knowledge about Constitution is Scary)
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_021208/content/01125113.guest.html ^

Posted on 02/13/2008 3:45:25 PM PST by newbie2008

"Does the Constitution permit a president to detain US citizens without charges as unlawful enemy combatants?" Obama's answer: "No. I reject the Bush Administration's claim that the President has plenary authority under the Constitution to detain US citizens without charges as unlawful enemy combatants." Memo to Obama: It is not the Bush administration's position. The Supreme Court held in 2004 -- this is the famous case, Hamdi v. Rumsfeld. The president has the power to detain American citizens without charges as enemy combatants. Now, I just have to think here -- I don't know what to think. He's either ignorant or he's saying something far more dangerous. If he is saying that he's not bound by the Supreme Court's interpretation of the law, liberals would have a stroke if Bush claimed the kind of authority that Obama is claiming in this -- and ignorance.

Liberals are out there going bonkers every day over how stupid Bush is. This Obama interview is just scary. Let's see. Find another one here. He gets it wrong on who ratifies treaties and who consents to them. He says the president doesn't have the authority to abolish treaties. And the president does! Bush abolished the ABM Treaty shortly after taking office because Bush said it's irrelevant. The Soviets are gone. I'm getting rid of this. The liberals went nuts, but they couldn't stop him because the president does have the authority to get rid of treaties. Obama says here that the president does not have the authority to undermine Congress, the Senate here, which ratifies treaties. The Senate doesn't ratify, they consent to them. The president makes treaties, negotiates them, comes up with them. When's the last time you saw Gorbachev meeting with some senator at Reykjavik or anywhere else? Gorbachev met with Reagan, for crying out loud.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: obama; rush
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To: King of Florida
Everything you say about Hamdi and about Rush using deliberate misinterpretation for entertainment is correct. But your last question begs for a response

One does not have to be a lawyer to interpret Supreme Court rulings, only a sufficiently high level of intelligence...which Rush demonstrable does...and an ability to read what is written and comprehend the legal context. Having read a fair number of SCOTUS opinions, I find it easy to understand what is being said. My only problem is being willing to wade through the BS embellishments and the boring efforts of the Justice writing the opinion to sound wise.

I have never had difficulty in understanding what the Justice means and I find it easy to disagree with their opinions and justifications.

Anyone who has read Griswold and choked over the long reach in the language used by Justice Douglas as he cites penumbras and emanations or read Roe, understood what Blackmun said, and hasn't laughed out loud at his reasoning and his complete inability to cite any basis in the Constitution to support his opinion is justified in not holding Supreme Court Justices in very high esteem. They are human beings with human frailties and flaws.

Anyone who so chooses, can study the Constitution and the supporting documents and understand when the courts are right or wrong.

Being a Harvard Lawyer and editor of the Law Review doesn't bestow any special omniscience, merely a solid foundation from which to begin.
121 posted on 02/14/2008 7:49:24 AM PST by Sudetenland (Mike Huckabee=Bill Clinton. Can we afford another Clinton in the White House...from either party?)
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To: Sudetenland

Point well taken. I didn’t mean to imply that no one but a lawyer could interpret and understand Supreme Court opinions, just that Rush is obviously giving himself way too much credit.


122 posted on 02/14/2008 8:13:11 AM PST by King of Florida (A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them.)
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To: BunkDetector
“Well, yeah, doesn’t everyone?”

Only if you want to be a politician.

123 posted on 02/14/2008 8:21:19 AM PST by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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To: Sudetenland
I read the article. Limbaugh was commenting on Obama’s IGNORANCE that a President does not have the power to abolish treaties (Regarding the last paragraph which is what part of the piece was about in the first place).

I think Limbaugh might have been mistaken about the process of establishing treaties as the “the law of the land”. The Pres. has the power to negotiate/propose treaties but to say “Rush is dead wrong” about Obama’s lack of historical understanding regarding abolishing agreements (Which is the main point of this thread) is “dead wrong”.

124 posted on 02/14/2008 8:44:08 AM PST by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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To: rollo tomasi

Here is the treaty question and Obama’s response referred to by Rush:

“Under what circumstances, if any, is the president, when operating overseas as commander-in-chief, free to disregard international human rights treaties that the US Senate has ratified?

It is illegal and unwise for the President to disregard international human rights treaties that have been ratified by the United States Senate, including and especially the Geneva Conventions. The Commander-in-Chief power does not allow the President to defy those treaties.”

As you can see, the issue was not whether the President can “abolish” treaties, which is a very different question from whether he can “disregard” treaties, in this case, the Geneva convention.

The issue was visited in respect Guantanamo detainees in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld where the Supreme Court held in part that the Administration had violated the Geneva Convention. The President had not attempted to “abolish” the convention, but rather to “cherry pick” provisions to abide by or disregard.

I would imagine there would be concern about “abolishing” the Geneva convention, even if the President had the authority to do so, because that would mean the U.S. would no longer be a signatory and thus our military would no longer be protected by its provisions.

The distinction is important and Obama shows precise understanding. The difference should not be whitewashed by Rush for “entertainment” value.Rush blew this attempt to prove Obama’s ignorance, and in the process showed his own.


125 posted on 02/14/2008 9:26:25 AM PST by Boatlawyer
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To: BunkDetector
Hey there! I used to go to Brasil for vacations. Just not any more. Been to Rio and Sao Paulo, and have some pals I chat with now and then. My Portuguese is getting "mais e mais ruin" though. As my family grew older, I've given into more practical trips to "Disney", the beach and the mountains. No real sacrifice there, I adore my family. : )

I generally prefer "Pagode" and "Axe" which are variants of Samba. If you like, you can go to YouTube and do searches on bands like "Exaltasamba", "Nosso Sentimento", "Kilourcura" and "Revelucao" for samples of good Pagode.

You've named the classics, though. You might also like "Lenny Andrade" - [she recorded my favorite version of "Onda" (Wave)], "Martinho Da Vila" and if you enjoy their pop, "Daniela Mercury" is one of the most well known pop singers there (A Bahiana Electrica!)

Martin_Fierro is a big fan of Brasilian tunes as well.

You might like "Lisa Ono" if you like more mellow Bossa Nova and the like.

So many choices. Brasilian music saved me when c"rap" music became popular. I'll go for some of our classics, but it's tough for me to enjoy most recent American pop now.

126 posted on 02/14/2008 9:53:48 AM PST by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Caipirabob

Thanks, Bob. That’s great information and I will follow up.


127 posted on 02/14/2008 10:00:46 AM PST by BunkDetector
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To: Baladas
Education does not equate to intelligence.

Education does not equate to morality.

Bush has a masters degree from Harvard and yet "know nothing DemonRats" call him everything from stupid to Hitler.

Slick Willie went to Oxford. So what?

128 posted on 02/14/2008 10:03:00 AM PST by Tolkien (There are things more important than Peace. Freedom being one of those.)
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To: BunkDetector
for sure.
Did he graduate from high school?
Did you?


I did graduate HS. My HS was different then your & Obama.
129 posted on 02/14/2008 10:21:47 AM PST by SeeSalt
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To: King of Florida

Well I can’t argue there. Rush does have an over inflated ego which does make itself known from time to time...not as bad as O’Reilly, but definitely there.


130 posted on 02/14/2008 11:24:25 AM PST by Sudetenland (Mike Huckabee=Bill Clinton. Can we afford another Clinton in the White House...from either party?)
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To: Boatlawyer
"The distinction is important and Obama shows precise understanding". Bullcrap.

It is illegal and unwise for the President to disregard international human rights treaties that have been ratified by the United States Senate, including and especially the Geneva Conventions. The Commander-in-Chief power does not allow the President to defy those treaties.

The Commander in Chief has the executive power and can indeed "cherry pick" any treaty when he/or maybe she can decide when provisions apply or no longer apply to certain REQUIREMENTS of the treaty itself.

Individuals shooting at US Military soldiers not wearing uniforms, dressed as civilians, hiding their weapons only before discharge, shooting behind women and children, shooting from mosque and other major violations exempt themselves from the protection of the treaty itself. Of course your a genious if you have a pack of penumbra loving oligarchs supporting your claims but who cares about substance it's the intentions that gives you a "precise understanding".
131 posted on 02/14/2008 11:59:16 AM PST by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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To: Sudetenland
Wasn't the AUMF the basis of the states argument for plenary authority.

That was just one of the arguments (and it's the argument accepted by the Court). But Bush also argued that he didn't need Congressional permission at all, that the Constitution granted him authority to hold citizens indefinitely without charge regardless of what Congress said and regardless of the 5th Amendment. The Court of course ignored that argument.

132 posted on 02/15/2008 4:12:11 AM PST by Sandy (Apology demanders suck.)
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To: leprechaun9
The charge against the President (and stated by B.O.) was that the President had no Constitutional Authority for the detention. The cited clause from the Supreme Court specifically responds directly to that false charge!

You're way off the mark here. The clause you cited isn't the Supreme Court's opinion. That clause is a recap of the lower court's opinion, which the Supreme Court vacated. You have things exactly backwards.

Obama is correct. President Bush does claim to have plenary authority under the Constitution to detain US citizens without charges as unlawful enemy combatants.

Now Rush says:

It is not the Bush administration's position. The Supreme Court held in 2004 -- this is the famous case, Hamdi v. Rumsfeld. . . .
But Rush is dead wrong. The Court in Hamdi held nothing of the sort. As was already pointed out to you earlier, the Hamdi Court never even addressed the Constitutional question. Evidently you missed reply #69, so here it is again, with emphasis added by me:
We do not reach the question whether Article II provides such authority, however, because we agree with the Government’s alternative position, that Congress has in fact authorized Hamdi’s detention, through the AUMF.
Get it now? The Supreme Court did "not reach the question whether Article II provides such authority. . . " Hope that helps.
133 posted on 02/15/2008 5:10:06 AM PST by Sandy (Apology demanders suck.)
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To: BunkDetector

I know Bobby went to U. of Virginia Law School, but I thought The Swimmer went to Harvard Law. I’ll have to check that out.


134 posted on 02/15/2008 4:19:59 PM PST by ought-six
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