Replies

tgusa: “It dawns on me that a deadly flaw of the GOP is the same thing we see here on FR and in our churches - we’re seriously fractured, with each faction claiming superiority and knowledge of ‘the true path.’”

You certainly have that right. What faction do you belong to?

Personally, I’m conservative. I belong to ALL three factions. I’m a repentant, Bible-believing, Christian who also believes in a strong national defense and individual liberty. I’m certain I’m not alone.

Huckabee may very well be an outstanding Christian. I don’t know him. However, evangelicals who vote for him are only marginalizing themselves, because he has no appeal outside of his faction.

I’m an engineer. I trust math. In Huckabee’s case, the math shows he has about as much chance of winning the nomination as I have of winning the lottery (and, please note, I don’t play lotteries). IF he did win by some amazing quirk of fate, he would lose the general election by a huge margin.

Huckabee supporters need to realize this isn’t about religion—it’s politics. In politics, you have to be able to compromise in order to get what you want. Stand firm against sin, but don’t equate politics with your walk with Christ. It’s not the same thing, nor can it be.

We should start a fraternity. Not only are we seemingly on the same walk, I too am an engineer - SE to be exact. Somebody said yesterday that politics is a smash-mouth business - too many people here seem to think that religion is, too. For instance, last night there was a thread of serious Catholic and Mormon bashing, before it was mercifully pulled by the moderator. To what end was that bashing? Who would profit from sowing such discord on FR?

Personally, I’m conservative. I belong to ALL three factions. I’m a repentant, Bible-believing, Christian who also believes in a strong national defense and individual liberty. I’m certain I’m not alone.

You're not alone. There are millions of us here in the States.

Huckabee may very well be an outstanding Christian. I don’t know him. However, evangelicals who vote for him are only marginalizing themselves, because he has no appeal outside of his faction.

Exactly!

I’m an engineer. I trust math. In Huckabee’s case, the math shows he has about as much chance of winning the nomination as I have of winning the lottery (and, please note, I don’t play lotteries). IF he did win by some amazing quirk of fate, he would lose the general election by a huge margin.

I am 100% congruent with you here. I am also an engineer, and don't play lotteries.

Huckabee supporters need to realize this isn’t about religion—it’s politics. In politics, you have to be able to compromise in order to get what you want. Stand firm against sin, but don’t equate politics with your walk with Christ. It’s not the same thing, nor can it be.

Amen, brother.

Jesus was not a politician.

I voted for Duncan Hunter here in NH. I knew the math was against him, but I wanted to vote my conscience and show that there are people to the right of the main candidates in hopes of pulling them rightward.

I watched Mitt Romney while he was governor of Massachusetts. In spite of all the disinformatsia that has been spewed about him in this forum, I watched his drift rightward. He had NOTHING to gain by drifting rightward, especially not in Massachusetts, but I still wasn't certain that his rightward motion was sincere.

After observing Romney's comportment in this campaign, epsecially compared to that of the other participants, I came to regret casting my vote for Duncan Hunter by the time of the South Carolina primary.

I believe this country missed out on the opportunity to have a truly GREAT president in Mitt Romney, even though he is not of what I consider to be THE faith.

I heard Mitt say in his now famous "Faith Speech" that "Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior."

I know a lot of folks say that has a different meaning for Mormons than it does for Christians, and maybe it does. But to start a speech with that line, and do it with CLASS, well, not only did it take guts, it took CONVICTION.

If Mitt runs again in 2012, and his conservative "epiphany" remains intact, I will vote for him.

In the meantime, we must be prepared to surrender our money, our liberty, and our dignity to whichever of the three totalitarian statists wins the general election.

As you aptly pointed out, Huckabee doesn't have a chance.

Huckabee supporters need to realize this isn’t about religion—it’s politics. In politics, you have to be able to compromise in order to get what you want. Stand firm against sin, but don’t equate politics with your walk with Christ. It’s not the same thing, nor can it be.

That's your opinion. Christians don't have to "do the math." Our side will win. We have read the last chapter of the book. (The Good Book)

If you do not act (and VOTE) in life with your faith as your guide, you are denying your ultimate responsibility as a Christian.

A Christian should not compartmentalize his life and vote for the devil by day while praying at night.

I agree with you. Except when the lottery goes over $20 million, I spend a buck. You never know. Better to have a finger in the pool, just in case.

My mom always told me I was one in a million. My wife agrees. Perhaps I can be one in 42 millon. Best to have that base covered.

you’re an engineer so you actually have all 4 factions of conservatism :)

"Huckabee supporters need to realize this isn’t about religion—it’s politics. In politics, you have to be able to compromise in order to get what you want. Stand firm against sin, but don’t equate politics with your walk with Christ. It’s not the same thing, nor can it be."

And politicians and voters compromising their principles is precisely the reason we are where we are now as a nation and culture.

"This isn’t about voting for the “devil” or choosing Christ. It’s about setting public policy for mostly secular matters."

The founding fathers would most likely disagree...

"Consider well the important trust . . . which God . . . [has] put into your hands. . . . To God and posterity you are accountable for [your rights and your rulers]. . . . Let not your children have reason to curse you for giving up those rights and prostrating those institutions which your fathers delivered to you. . . . [L]ook well to the characters and qualifications of those you elect and raise to office and places of trust. . . . Think not that your interests will be safe in the hands of the weak and ignorant; or faithfully managed by the impious, the dissolute and the immoral. Think not that men who acknowledge not the providence of God nor regard His laws will be uncorrupt in office, firm in defense of the righteous cause against the oppressor, or resolutly oppose the torrent of iniquity. . . . Watch over your liberties and privileges - civil and religious - with a careful eye."

[Matthias Burnett, Pastor of the First Baptist Church in Norwalk, An Election Sermon, Preached at Hartford, on the Day of the Anniversary Election, May 12, 1803 (Hartford: Printed by Hudson & Goodwin, 1803), pp. 27-28.]

"[T]he time has come that Christians must vote for honest men and take consistent ground in politics or the Lord will curse them. . . . Christians have been exceedingly guilty in this matter. But the time has come when they must act differently. . . . Christians seem to act as if they thought God did not see what they do in politics. But I tell you He does see it and He will bless or curse this nation according to the course they [Christians] take [in politics]."

[Charles G. Finney, Lectures on Revivals of Religion (New York: Fleming H. Revell Company, 1868), Lecture XV, pp. 281-282.]

"Now more than ever the people are responsible for the character of their Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless, and corrupt, it is because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness, and corruption. If it be intelligent, brave, and pure, it is because the people demand these high qualities to represent them in the national legislature. . . . [I]f the next centennial does not find us a great nation . . . it will be because those who represent the enterprise, the culture, and the morality of the nation do not aid in controlling the political forces."

[James A. Garfield, The Works of James Abram Garfield, Burke Hinsdale, editor (Boston: James R. Osgood and Company, 1883), Vol. II, pp. 486, 489, A Century of Congress, July, 1877.]

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation , to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

[John Jay, The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed. (New York: G.P. Putnams Sons, 1890), Vol. IV, p. 365.]

"In selecting men for office, let principle be your guide. Regard not the particular sect or denomination of the candidate--look to his character. . . . When a citizen gives his suffrage to a man of known immorality he abuses his trust; he sacrifices not only his own interest, but that of his neighbor, he betrays the interest of his country.

[Noah Webster, Letters to a Young Gentleman Commencing His Education to which is subjoined a Brief History of the United States (New Haven: S. Converse, 1823), pp. 18, 19.]

And a quote that many would almost consider Fulfilled prophecy...

"When you become entitled to exercise the right of voting for public officers, let it be impressed on your mind that God commands you to choose for rulers, "just men who will rule in the fear of God." The preservation of government depends on the faithful discharge of this duty; if the citizens neglect their duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted; laws will be made, not for the public good so much as for selfish or local purposes; corrupt or incompetent men will be appointed to execute the laws; the public revenues will be sqandered on unworthy men; and the rights of the citizens will be violated or disregarded. If a republican government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be because the citizens neglect the divine commands, and elect bad men to make and administer the laws."

[Noah Webster, History of the United States (New Haven: Durrie & Peck, 1832), pp. 336-337, 49.]

Socialists have been successful in removing God from governments and now Communists are succeeding in removing God from America.

"Jesus was not a politician." Westbrook

Romans 13:1-7 1Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
2Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.
3For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;
4for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.
5Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake.
6For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.
7Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

Jesus wasn't an 'engineer' per se, but He created the Universe and everything in it.

"Christian Leader James Dobson needs to stay out of politics or his church needs to start paying taxes." Hazcat

Dobson is the head of two organizations. One is tax-exempt and the other is political and not tax-exempt.

As such; he has every right to exercise his Constitutional rights...or do you not think so?

omgosh! ITA with your entire post.
Especially your last two paragraphs.

We are screwed for the next 4 years at least. IMO