Posted on 02/06/2008 7:50:37 AM PST by Congressman Billybob
The first state results to be reported on Super Tuesday came from the Republican Caucus in West Virginia. The result was that Mike Huckabee got all the delegates from that state to the Republican Convention. What makes the story really interesting is, HOW he got those delegates.
From the report I have, here’s how the delegates voted in round one:
* Romney 464 * Huckabee 375 * McCain 176 * Paul 118
Ron Paul, who got the fewest votes, was dropped from the ballot for the next round of voting. The results then became:
* Huckabee 524 * Romney 479 * McCain 11
Anyone who can count to twenty without removing his socks can see what happened. McCain’s operatives saw that they were going nowhere in West Virginia. So they instructed their people to give the state to Huckabee. And most of their delegates obeyed that order.
The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review ran this title on the story: “Wild and Wonderful Win for Huckabee.” That title is false. This was a “Down and Dirty Win for McCain.” Huckabee is going nowhere. Eventually, at the Republican Convention if not before, Huckabee’s candidacy will fold like a cheap lawn chair. At that point, who will get those West Virginia delegates?
If you guessed Mitt Romney, I’ll allow you another guess. John McCain has just stolen the votes of West Virginia by giving them, temporarily, to his ally in the theft, Mike Huckabee. By the way, national convention delegates must vote as they were pledged when elected, depending on state laws. I understand that none remain bound beyond the third roll-call vote.
As the saying goes, politics ain’t beanbag. What was just done in West Virginia is entirely legal. But it smells as bad as a dumpster full of day-old crab shells behind Phillips Crab House in Ocean City, Maryland, in mid-July. Believe you me, that is REALLY rank.
If the delegates from West Virginia are enough to put McCain over the top, then McCain has just stolen the nomination. Right in front of God and everybody.
Well, has anything similar happening among the Democrats? Just by coincidence, it has.
In order to preserve the special status of the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary, the Democratic National Committee required that no other state conduct its Democrat primaries before a certain date in 2008. Democrats in Florida and Michigan decided to move their primaries up in violation of that limit.
The DNC then “stripped” the delegates from both states for the Convention. No delegates were then elected in the “beauty contest primaries” in those two states. Democrat candidates had also pledged not to campaign in those states, and in Michigan, Hillary Clinton was the only major candidate to leave her name on the state ballot.
Well, Hillary Clinton won both of those states. After those non-delegate elections, she wrote a letter to the DNC demanding that delegates for her from those states be seated at the Convention. The rest of this discussion is somewhat obscure, but I guarantee it is correct. I speak as the former Parliamentarian for a national political convention. (The convention was for Ross Perot’s Reform Party. But the principles of operating a convention are the same, regardless of the candidate’s chance of winning the coming election.)
When the Democrats meet in Convention in the summer, initially no delegates from Florida or Michigan will be seated. But let’s say at that point that Hillary Clinton has a majority of the seated delegates, but not the absolute majority of all authorized delegates which is required for nomination. You with me so far?
Who gets to decide whether Hillary Clinton delegates from Florida and Michigan get seated? Why, it’s the delegates who are already seated, that’s who. In that circumstance, Hillary can use her plurality on the floor to steal the delegates from those two states. Having done that, she will have stolen the nomination. Right in front of God and everybody.
In short, there is a possibility that the 2008 presidential election may be unique in American history. Before 2008, nominations have been stolen. Elections have been stolen (recall the Hayes-Tilden race of 1876). But never before have two candidates, both of whom stole their nominations, faced each other in a general election.
If the vote tallies are tight at both the Republican and Democrat national conventions, it is possible we might see that unique circumstance, two election thieves facing each other with one guaranteed to win, between John McCain and Hillary Clinton.
Sorta makes you proud to be an American, don’t it?
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About the Author: John Armor practiced in the US Supreme Court for 33 years. John_Armor@aya.yale.edu He lives in the 11th Congressional District of North Carolina.
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I especially don’t want to see a flame war on a thread about a serious (though arcane) subject.
John / Billybob
Not when Huck paid Paul 3 delegates (according to Paul's own campaign) to have his people vote for Huckabee.
Ron Paul's campaign claimed late this afternoon that it had secured three of the 18 delegates through a deal with Mike Huckabee to help put him above the 50 percent threshold.
Perhaps you didn't hear it here at FR but we yelled and screamed here in WV at the rules change at it's inception. The state party was just entrenched in the idea and remained deaf.
I heard that Ron Paul’s people were also in on the deal in West Virginia.
Great grandma makes an excellent point. Whenever you do something that you have to lie about afterward, you probably shouldn’t have done it in the first place.
I still remember the first time I was offered a “bribe.” It wasn’t phrased as a bribe. The “donor” simply said that he would make a $30,000 “gift” to a charity I was associated with. Only he would do it in cash. He was counting on me to pocket the cash, and then he’d “own” me, as Huey Long did in “All the King’s Men.” As soon as I replied that I’d report the contribution in cash, the subject was dropped and no “donation” was ever made.
Lord knows, I haven’t always followed it, but my parents gave me the same advice that Great Grandma is obviously passing down in her family. Don’t do things you’d be ashamed to ‘fess up to, after the fact. McCain and Huckabee both got rightfully tarnished by this affair.
John / Billybob
“No, he only skewers Republicans and then we’re stupid enough to select this traitor as our candidate. There’s something rotten here.”
Like McCain losing ‘gracefully’ to Hillary Clinton.
He will be deemed to be too old, and a continuation of the ‘old’ politics.
Boo hoo??? So cheating is alright with you as long as it gets the results you desire???
Christian first, eh?
To award the delegates to Hillary, after she pledged not to take part in the contest, is helping her cheat on the delegate count. Michigan is the clearest case, because Obama and Edwards took their names off the Michigan ballot, whereas, Hillary left hers on. (Whether a candidate CAN take his/her name off a state ballot, varies with state law. Obviously it could be done in Michigan.)
As for winning the nomination, both Parties require an absolute majority, not a plurality, of the authorized delegates, for nomination. Both Parties also drop the lowest tally candidate after each round of voting.
So, looking at the Democrats, Edwards would retain his delegates on round one (and also Richards, etc., who have any). When any candidate is dropped off the bottom of the list, his/her delegates are then freed to vote for others as they choose, or are directed by their former candidate.
At this point, a plurality would usually turn into a majority for the leading candidate. However, if a block of delegates decided to "take a walk" and not vote -- for bargaining chip reasons, dislike of another candidate, whatever -- there would be no majority and the voting would continue.
Exactly the same logic about the process applies to the Republican convention. There's a lot of bad blood out there in both parties, and, "It is going to get worse. Mark my words." (Quoting Fred Thompson in "The Hunt for Red October.")
Good questions you raised.
John / Billybob
Responding over the top but in kind was suppose to be ironic ... glad you caught it.
Cheating!?!
Not hardly.
You know, now that it's out there for the world to see it dawned on me that my comment was out of line.
My apologies.
I probably need to quit posting on political threads until after the election ... the process up to this point has got me as frustrated as I've been in a long time.
Aw, don’t go that far, as to quit Freeping! That’s too drastic . . .
Oh please dont stop pissing and moaning about ‘fair’ you sound like the cry babies on DU...
But, you neglected the (probable) vote fraud in NH ?
Mrs Clinton won by 13% over Obama - but the day before, she trailed by 8-9%.
The difference was roughly 39,000 votes = 12% of the total democrat votes cast.
HOWEVER, slightly over 10% of the voters of the 480,000 democrat voters - particularly IN THE BORDER counties in NH next to Mass and Vermont were day-of-voting registrants. Thus, it is easy to see that Mass Clinton voters left their towns early (public school teachers and public employee unions especially were noticed “absent” that afternoon!) and voted in New Hampshire.
Now - Where they the “missing” 39,000 Hillary voters who swung the polls from Obama? Certainly there were enough (potential) “new” available votes to swing the outcome.
And, outside voters would NOT be included in the hundreds of polls run before the election: No pollster is going to ask a Mass voter how they vote in a NH election!
Christian First.
Father and Husband Second.
American and Conservative Third.
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Im sorry and what is wrong with this?
John;
Great post.
Here is the latest ordinace for Farmers Branch for your reading pleasure.
Clay
http://www.ci.farmers-branch.tx.us/Communication/Ordinance%20No%202952.doc
Thank you for the compliment.
Who gets to decide whether Hillary Clinton delegates from Florida and Michigan get seated? Why, it’s the delegates who are already seated, that’s who. In that circumstance, Hillary can use her plurality on the floor to steal the delegates from those two states. Having done that, she will have stolen the nomination. Right in front of God and everybody.
I hope she does this!!
It will suppress the turnout. and drive a wedge deep in the the democrat party.
Nothing to feel sorry about around here.
We got what we deserved. We are a bunch of complainers only.
I doubt there would be any posts if someone just made a comment. Only complainers.
I’m so glad you are now down to McCain and Huckabee. Guess you are thrilled.
What is your problem? Are you a McCain staffer? All you do is trash Romney.
He is not any worse than your pick of McCain.
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