Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


1 posted on 01/30/2008 2:01:18 PM PST by johniegrad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: Jim Robinson

Ping


2 posted on 01/30/2008 2:03:57 PM PST by johniegrad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: johniegrad

Very interesting. Thanks for posting this.


3 posted on 01/30/2008 2:12:21 PM PST by wideminded
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: johniegrad

not one of my faves - Cave Parable is about the best writing in the past 2068 years


6 posted on 01/30/2008 2:14:16 PM PST by spanalot (*)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: johniegrad

What about it?


9 posted on 01/30/2008 2:17:25 PM PST by RightWhale (oil--the world currency)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: johniegrad

I assume that Plato has Socrates give an answer, one that Plato considered to be correct?


13 posted on 01/30/2008 2:22:18 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (Mike Huckabee: If Gomer Pyle and Hugo Chavez had a love child this is who it would be.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: johniegrad

Thanks for posting.

Kind of puts that old adage that “cheaters never prosper” on it’s head, eh? LOL.


14 posted on 01/30/2008 2:23:00 PM PST by khnyny (2008: A Space Odyssey/ Clintons=HAL)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: johniegrad

So? Where is the great Greek nation today, with such advice?


15 posted on 01/30/2008 2:23:08 PM PST by bvw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: johniegrad

Yeah, well, we all know what Paraxamander of Melos had to say about Plato....


21 posted on 01/30/2008 3:40:26 PM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Former FredHead, now a Mittbot.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: johniegrad

From which St John’s are you a grad?


22 posted on 01/30/2008 3:44:51 PM PST by ThirdMate
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: johniegrad

btt


23 posted on 01/30/2008 6:48:58 PM PST by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: johniegrad; wagglebee

It reads much like a certain Italian fellow wrote in The Prince.

And it merely deals with the tangible, not peace of mind or righteousness.

Here’s some worthwhile reading on the general subject.

Book of Job
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=22&version=9

Book of Psalms
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=23&version=9

Book of Proverbs
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=24&version=9

Book of Ecclesiastes
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=25&version=9


24 posted on 01/30/2008 6:54:05 PM PST by The Spirit Of Allegiance (Public Employees: Honor Your Oaths! Defend the Constitution from Enemies--Foreign and Domestic!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: johniegrad
injustice, if it is on a large enough scale, is stronger, freer, and more masterly than justice.

Nietzsche is anticipated by a couple of millennia. The catch is that strength, freedom, and masterliness...uh, masterhood? Domination? Puissance? Whatever...the catch is that these abstractions are not virtues in and of themselves, however noble they sound. Actually that was Nietzsche's problem as well. IMHO.

What is submerged in this glossover is that "justice" as Socrates seems to regard it is in fact restraint, the restraint of an individual with respect to his or her society. Taking less where one could have had more is an act of self-discipline, not weakness. It is a willing contribution to the public good.

Plato (and Kant somewhat later) had a good deal to say concerning whether such an act was virtue a priori or done so in the expectation that others would make a similar sacrifice. But clearly there is a difference of opinion here as to the degree to which society may make demands on one that are morally superior to one's commitment to self.

In fact, it is an open question as to whether the collective even has any demands separate from the demands of self of its constituent individuals. Too much emphasis on the former brings us the primacy of State; too little and we have moral anarchy, where government does not appeal to virtue or even a social contract but is pure coercion.

One sees several political models in this moral dilemma - a good dollop of Marxian cynicism coupled with the naive Marxian aspiration that things ought to be otherwise for some reason. (Touching faith for an athiest, and I am hardly the first to point it out.)

One reason the Constitution of the United States has enjoyed the success that it has is that it attempts to delineate the degree to which individual and State may make demands one upon the other. It should be no surprise that this is an item of such contention between factions who have drastically different notions of those boundaries.

And those notions hinge on one's interpretation of the term "justice," nowhere precisely defined, not even by Socrates. One's interpretation of that key concept does a great deal to describe one's politics, morality, and general personal philosophy. Nice article, and thanks for posting.

26 posted on 01/30/2008 8:19:47 PM PST by Billthedrill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: johniegrad

That is simply remarkable.

Thanks for posting it.


33 posted on 01/31/2008 5:05:36 PM PST by Radix (If your outgo exceeds your income, your upkeep will be your downfall.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: johniegrad; Admin Moderator

Article site links back to FRee Republic.

Here is a link below to the Amazon source for that book.

Moderator might be able to fix it.

http://www.amazon.com/Plato-Complete-Works/dp/0872203492


34 posted on 01/31/2008 5:12:38 PM PST by Radix (If your outgo exceeds your income, your upkeep will be your downfall.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson