Peggy Noonan: Breaking Up Is Hard to Do

The Wall Street Journal ^ | January 25, 2008 | Peggy Noonan

[Aristotelian]

Declarations: The primary campaign is tearing the Democrats apart. President Bush already did that to the Republicans.

We begin, as one always must now, again, with Bill Clinton. The past week he has traveled South Carolina, leaving discord in his wake. Barack Obama, that "fairytale," is low, sneaky. "He put out a hit job on me." The press is cruelly carrying Mr. Obama's counter-jabs. "You live for it."

(snip)

As for the Republicans, their slow civil war continues. . . . The rage is due to many things. A world is ending, the old world of conservative meaning, and ascendancy. Loss leads to resentment. (See Clinton, Bill.)

(snip)

It will all come down to: Whom do Republicans believe? Mr. Romney in spite of his past and now-disavowed liberal positions? Or Mr. McCain in spite of his forays, the past 10 years, into a kind of establishment mindset that has suggested that The Establishment Knows Best?

Do conservatives take inspiration from Mr. Romney's newness? Or do they take comfort and security from Mr. McCain's rugged ability to endure, and to remind?

It is along those lines the big decision will be made.

[Truthsearcher]

2 replies to me and you’ve still yet to say anything. Do me a favor, either say something substantive and make a point, or stop wasting my time.

[Truthsearcher]

“America might still win the war, but it’s going to go on much longer than it had to.”

Of course, if only you were in charge. Mecca would have been nuked and we’d have won yesterday.

[Darkwolf377]

You don’t belong on this forum.

Not your decision to make.

You don’t think Reagan was responsible for bringing down the Soviet Union.

You are a liar. Anyone can see that by looking at my posts.

As I said to begin with, you sound like a guy from DU, KOS or MoveOn.org. Why don’t you go over to one of them.

That old rap?

You have no grip on reality, and cry when someone talks about facts and having honest disagreement. Then you simply lie. You are not only ignorant, you are a liar, so later.

[DoughtyOne]

How can you get through the day with so little brain power?

Since you've got less, why don't you tell us.

Your entire "argument" is based on my saying Reagan committed a sin.

My arguement is based on this...

...we forget many of the sins perpetrated by the genuinely great Ronald Reagan...

You stated he committed may sins.  What a dumb ass.

I guess you're saying Reagan never committed sins?

So far you haven't provided any evidence that he did.  Even his appointment of judges is very iffy.  Judges seldom turn out precisely as the appointing President thinks they will.

Now, where did I get the idea that you idolized him?

I respect Reagan a great deal and I'm proud of it.

"Lie number two. I merely pointed to things he did I consider sins, such as signing an amnesty."

Was it wrong for him to sign a bill with new laws that would have ended illegal immigration had it been enforced?  Your attempt was to disparage Reagan to make it more palitable to accept what other men have done that is unacceptable.  By tearing Reagan down, you hoped to humanize other people and I called you on it.

Please tell us what Reagan's sins were.  We're waiting.

You don't even know what a lie is, do you?

A falsehood.  You attempted to tarnish Reagan based on the immigration bill he signed granting amensty.  You failed to mention that it also made provisions to end illegal immigration.  The overall impact would have been very positive had the bill been enforced.

You flat out lied.

Ronald Reagan wasn't around to enforce the laws.

LOL! Oh, it's not HIS fault, he just signed an amnesty! LOL

Once again for the intellectually challenged.  If you're going to address a bill, you need to address the whole bill.  Reagan intended to grant amesty to all the illegals that had been in the nation for a certain period of time.  That amounted to about 1 million people or 33,000 people per year, for the prior 30 years.  As part of that bill, laws were enacted to end illegal immigration.  You do comprehend the significance of this right?  Evidently not.

If Reagan's bill which you fault him for had been enforced, it would have conservatively prevented between 35 and 50 million illegal immigrants from pouring across our borders.  You have the audacity to dump on Reagan, when all these people were allowed to enter the nation after he left office. And Bush hasn't put an end to hit yet.  Despite the flow of anywhere from 1.5 to 3.5 times the number of illegals that entered over 30 years, now coming in per year, you choose to dump on Reagan, not Bush, not Clinton and not the first Bush.

You are a joke. I refer anyone to your previous rambling post which foists your childish "bite me" level wit in place of reality.

You keep pointing out how ignorant I am, but haven't provided one sin yet that Reagan committed.

This is one guy you'll have to deal with when you start trying to disemble Ronald Reagan. If you're not smart enough to avoid doing it, youl'll get your ass handed to you every time.

When are you going to start?

Why should I tell you.  It wouldn't help.

You have no facts--you merely ASSERT. Then when something Reagan did is pointed out you whine "It wasn't his fault, he just made it into law!"

You trumped up a charge against Reagan by ignoring a very significant portion of the bill he signed.  Then you give everyone else a pass, and fault me for pointing it out.  LOL

You just keep repeating the same silliness of people who don't read about Reagan anywhere but on the internet, who can't understand how one can point out (here it comes, get ready) SINS of someone they admire, and still consider that person the best of their kind.

...we forget many of the sins perpetrated by the genuinely great Ronald Reagan...

You don't consider him to be anything of the kind.  You have damned him for doing his best to end illegal immigration.  You have said that Iran Contra was a huge mistake.  You stated that he didn't bring down the USSR.  You are one hell of a big fan.

You have a curious need to spout silliness as if you're afraid of not being seen as in total support of the man. Hmmmm...curious.

Afraid of not supporting him?  Bud, you are one sick puppy.  I have never acted as if I didn't, even when conversing with Democrats.  After reading your comments here though, I cannot imagine why you would stick around.

You've got all the DU talking points down, spout them at will, and then say that you think Reagan was the best.  Bull!

For someone who claims to know about Reagan you have a curious lack of understanding of his presidency. You can worship him as a perfect person, but I doubt he'd appreciate such unthinking idolatry.

Let me know when you're going to start listing his sins.

[DoughtyOne]

Said the fool who still hasn’t listed one sin of many.

[Aristotelian]

I beg to disagree. Bush in the WH followed the same pattern he established when Gov of TX. He played nice with the Dems in the legislature, reckoning that would win them over. He tried it in DC and got clobbered.

Moreover, it’s in his genes. Do you recall his father saying, “I never got that ‘vision thing’”? The Bushes are progmatists, not ideologues.

[DoughtyOne]

LOL, the same arguement that the RP has been making for the last twenty years while we go from one RINO to the next while they dismantle our nation one leftist move at a time.

Tell me what the definition of a person is, that does the same thing every four years, and still thinks that tactic is going to change things the next time.

[mkjessup]

“America might still win the war, but it’s going to go on much longer than it had to.”
Of course, if only you were in charge. Mecca would have been nuked and we’d have won yesterday.

Don't be an ass. You have no idea of my mindset regarding the war, so don't assume things, ok?

[tgusa]

Wow. Just, wow. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to waste 15 minutes of what’s left of my life skimming through this deep, philosophical discussion. At least we conservatives are good at tossing meadow muffins at each other, if not actually electing conservative candidates.

[Aristotelian]

Sadly, you’re right. Fred never had the fire in the belly that was needed to win.

[Darkwolf377]

You stated he committed may sins. What a dumb ass.

Word of advice--when calling someone a dumb ass, you need to spell "many" properly. Dumbass.

Let me know when you're going to start listing his sins.

You are obsessed with that comment, and keep repeating it over and over and over in an effort to prove something. All you are proving is your lack of intelligence.

I'd continue posting about this topic, but it's not about Reagan. Now it's about you. You apparently have no life and have to model yourself as a protector of Reagan in order to somehow connect your sorry life to the great man's.

My love and admiration for Reagan doesn't mean I do not see him as he was--a human being, who did some great things and some not-so-great.

But you're not interested in any of that. You're not interested in Reagan the Man. You're only interested in your childish insults as a way of linking yourself to someone you profess to like yet know nothing about that wasn't handed to you.

You are incapable of serious discussion because you have no understanding of the subject at hand beyond what others have told you. Thus, talking to you is a waste of my time.

"I guess you're saying Reagan never committed sins?" So far you haven't provided any evidence that he did.

So Reagan never committed a sin?

You are a scary person in need of help.

[mkjessup]

Whipped that boy (or ‘wolf’) like a red headed stepchild.

Truly stunning, nice work. :)

[Darkwolf377]

The Bushes are progmatists, not ideologues.

I agree. That's WHY his second term turned out as it did. But that doesn't mean it COULDN'T have turned out otherwise.

W showed evidence of being his own man in term 1, but in term 2 he became the second term for GHWB.

[mkjessup]

Slinking away from the thread now, with that ‘you’re wasting my time’ gambit?

DoughtyOne cleaned your clock, and you’ve been unable to refute one damn thing he said.

Looks good on you.

[carton253]

Bull crap! I would rather have George W. Bush in the White House than John McCain or Al Gore or John Kerry.

[Truthsearcher]

Well, since you have such a great mindset, then obviously you’re aware that any war consists of a myriad of smaller victories and setbacks. That setbacks are not in of themselves an indication of defeat nor bad leadership, that they are inevitable in a war against a determined foe.

That we had plenty of setbacks in the Cold War before finally prevailing after 40+ years, and that the current war against Islamofascists will also consist of a long drawn out struggle that will both last decades and confront us with the inevitable setbacks from time to time.

You’re aware of all of this, right?

[Darkwolf377]

Slinking away from the thread now, with that ‘you’re wasting my time’ gambit? DoughtyOne cleaned your clock, and you’ve been unable to refute one damn thing he said. Looks good on you.

People I don't know thinking people I don't know cleaned my clock doesn't impress me. Neither does your and his total lack of facts.

Yes, you're right of course--Reagan DIDN'T sign an amnesty (which we've castigated Bush for thinking of doing). Iran-Contra was a WONDERFUL idea (even though it's not what it's often been portrayed, it was still stupid in how it turned out). The budget DIDN'T expand under Reagan. (Uh-huh.) Our soldiers DIDN'T lead to the end of the Cold War, that was all Reagan. (I bet he would disagree.) Reagan made NO mistakes in office. (He was perfect in every way, PERFECT.) Reagan DIDN'T pick O'Connor...

But yup, he cleaned my clock, uh huh. If that fantasy makes you happy, enjoy.

[DoughtyOne]

You don’t belong on this forum.

Not your decision to make.

It's my opinion to make, and I expressed it.

You don’t think Reagan was responsible for bringing down the Soviet Union.

You are a liar. Anyone can see that by looking at my posts.

The fall of communism was Reagan's greatest achievement--and it wasn't just his. Decades of American soldiers on the wall made that happen.  Reagan delivered the killing blow. Bush delivered the first.

What the hell does that mean?  "Bush delievered the first."  His CIA didn't even know it was going to happen, so stating he provided some action is just plain idiotic.

Please tell us what soldiers were 'on the wall'.  We had soldiers in Germany.  None of them were perched on the wall.  If the soldiers shared the responsibility for the wall falling, I'd like to know how.

Did they hold the line?  Of course.  Did they prevent Russia from pouring into Western Europe?  Yes.  Did they take down the Soviet Union?  Not really.

The policies of Ronald Reagan brought down the Soviet Union and the wall.  And the beauty was, it didn't require a single shot to do it.

As I said to begin with, you sound like a guy from DU, KOS or MoveOn.org. Why don’t you go over to one of them.

That old rap?

Yep, it's still true.

You have no grip on reality, and cry when someone talks about facts and having honest disagreement.

LOL, you're retread is falling off.

Then you simply lie.

Yep, and Reagan committed many sins.

You are not only ignorant, you are a liar, so later.

That's okay.  Slink on off and lick you wounds.  I would too if I were you.

[lentulusgracchus]

2 replies to me and you’ve still yet to say anything.

Wrong again.

Do me a favor, either say something substantive and make a point, or stop wasting my time.

Not the way to ask for a favor.

If Hillary Clinton is sworn in, those conservative Justices should start worrying about their health. The Xlintonx are ruthless. I'm personally convinced they've killed people.

[lentulusgracchus]

Now it's your turn. Please show me a non-sequitur that I've put up.