NJ nears undermining Electoral College

pioneer press/ap ^ | 1-3-08 | TOM HESTER Jr.

[WOBBLY BOB]

TRENTON, N.J.—New Jersey is close to entering a compact that would eliminate the power of the Electoral College to choose a president if enough states endorse the idea. The state Senate voted Thursday to approve delivering the state's 15 electoral votes for president to the winner of the national popular vote. The Assembly approved the measure in December and needs Gov. Jon S. Corzine's signature to become law.

"The bill is subject to a thorough review, but Gov. Corzine has long been a supporter of this concept," Corzine spokesman Jim Gardner said.

The measure could result in the electoral votes going to a candidate opposed by voters in New Jersey, which has backed Democratic presidential candidates since 1988.

The compact would take effect only if enough states—those with a majority of votes in the Electoral College—agreed to it. A candidate needs 270 of 538 electoral votes to win.

[commish]

So what agreement or compact with another state are they entering?

From the article - New Jersey's Electoral votes would only be divided this way if a MAJORITY of other states did the same thing (IOW FIXING EVERY ELECTION SO THAT IT IS DECIDED BY THAT SET OF STATES).

The compact would take effect only if enough states—those with a majority of votes in the Electoral College—agreed to it.

THis is a direct violation of the commerce clause of the Constitution.

IF THE FOLLOWING STATES JOINED THE COMPACT :
California (55), Illinois (21), Michigan (17), Florida (27), New Jersey (15), New York (31), Texas (34), Pennsylvania (21), Ohio (20), North Carolina (15), Georgia (15), D.C. (3) --- you have 273 ELectoral Votes. MEaning these 11 States and Washington D.C. will Garauntee victory to the "popular Vote" winner of every election. Thereby rendering the Electoral votes of 39 states IRRELEVANT.

[tanknetter]

Completely within the limits set by the Constitution.

I would agree. The point where it would become unConstitutional would be if, say, NJ, California, NY and a couple other states entered into some kind of electoral vote-swapping arrangement to create a bloc within the Electoral College.

So long as there is no explicit agreement with another state, and the NJ Legislature is just saying that it's electoral votes will go to whichever candidate wins the national popular vote, it should pass Constitutional muster.

[stylin19a]

shhhhh! they didn’t think that far ahead. Let’s hope they don’t read this post.

[gridlock]

s for me, I am tired of the bigger states having a bigger say when it comes to presidential elections.

You have this exactly backward, FRiend. It is the smaller population states that have more say in the Electoral College. The vote of a person in Wyoming is worth about twice as much as the vote of somebody in California when it comes to picking the President.

[Republican Wildcat]

It really is scarey that people like him, with absolutely no concept of what he is talking about, are actually what the strong majority of people in the country think the Electoral College is.

[SoCal Pubbie]

Article IV

Section 4

"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence."

Disenfranchising the citizens of a state does not comply with the Constitution.

[xcamel]

Correct answer.

[Republican Wildcat]

scarey = scary

[Alas Babylon!]

Dude, you better get back here and defend yourself.

You are being B-slapped unmercifully!

[dennisw]

Democrat scum have zero respect for our Constitution and our traditions. The Electoral College has functions ed very well for 200+ years but this obviously isn’t good enough for Dem scum. They think they can do better-

[arthurus]

I think it has been a sort of rule of thumb that a million more people have to vote for the Republican presidential candidate than vote for the Democrat in order to break even. That has been the wisdom for long enough that I suspect the number would actually be higher now, maybe a lot higher.

[SoCal Pubbie]

That clause states that the Legislature may choose the electors in any manner it may chose. I do not see where it provides the power to instruct them how to vote. Article 4, section 4 of the Constitution guarantees every citizen of every state a republican form of government. To allow voters in other states to instruct electors in your state how to vote would violate that guarantee.

[tanknetter]

Disenfranchising the citizens of a state does not comply with the Constitution.

Article IV, Section 4 speaks to the relationship between the citizens of a state and their state government.

It doesn't contravene the right granted to the state legislatures to determine the method of choosing Presidential electors.

Remember that the purpose of the Electoral College was to remove the selection of the President from the general population to the greatest extent possible while still maintaining some elements of representative process. The President was never supposed to be selected through a democratic/popular vote process. He was supposed to be selected by the electors from the several states, through the manner each individual state choose.

[frithguild]

Why would people turn out?

Power of the incumbency? Duh???

[BuffaloJack]

I thought I read, about a year ago, that Maryland already did this.
Idiots! They have disenfranchised themselves and taken away the rights of their citizens.

[gridlock]

THis will last only as long as they think it will help elect democRATS. When it elects a Republican...then it will be a different story, about how it’s unfair, rigged, etc, etc, etc.

Say you are the governor of New York, but because of this compact, your state is going to be forced to cast Electoral Votes for the Republican against your Senator, Hillary Clinton. Wouldn't you do everything you could to weasel out on the deal? It is not like the New York voters are going to hold you accountable for helping elect "their girl"...

When push comes to shove, somebody is going to renege, and the whole thing will fall apart. This will make Florida 2000 look like a Church Social.

[tanknetter]

That clause states that the Legislature may choose the electors in any manner it may chose. I do not see where it provides the power to instruct them how to vote. Article 4, section 4 of the Constitution guarantees every citizen of every state a republican form of government. To allow voters in other states to instruct electors in your state how to vote would violate that guarantee.

In the current setup the Electors are legislatively obligated to vote for a specific candidate based on certain criteria (specifically the candidate they promised to support).

Reference the concept of "unfaithful electors". There was a lot of discussion about this back in 2000 when the Dems were making noise that some Bush electors could be persuaded to bolt to Gore, leading to talk of some sort of "bidding war" within the electoral college.

[calcowgirl]

There are three initiatives now circulating for signatures having to do with electoral votes; none have yet qualified (but if they get enough signatures, they will be on the June ballot). Two are similar to this New Jersey plan (#1281, #1282). The other (#1268) is as you describe, where EV’s would be allocated by CD. This latter one is being bankrolled by the Giuliani gang, the former two by the Democrats.

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_j.htm#1277

[tanknetter]

When push comes to shove, somebody is going to renege, and the whole thing will fall apart. This will make Florida 2000 look like a Church Social.

Yup. Just look at the debate here over whether the arrangement is Constitutional or not. Solid arguments on both sides, lots of diagreements - and we're all good Republicans and Conservatives.

Imagine what happens if this were to get into the courts, with candidates and campaigns going judge-shopping to engineer a desired outcome?

[Brilliant]

i’m delighted. maybe the gop will have a chance in NJ afterall.