Posted on 12/19/2007 11:58:37 AM PST by Gamecock
According to Joseph Smith, Yes.
Following the Missouri debacle, Whitmer switched his allegiance to a black magic prophetess – after which he was denounced by Smith as a "dumb beast to ride" and "an ass to bray out cursings instead of blessings."
Earlier in Kirtland, Smith had a fight with another Book of Mormon Witness, Oliver Cowdery, over the Fanny Alger incident. Smith impregnated a 16-year girl who was living with the his family and working as their maid. Cowdery denounced Smith for his adultery. Smith denied the charge, branded Cowdery a liar and expelled him from the Church – Cowdery became a Methodist, denied the Book of Mormon and publicly confessed his sorrow and shame for his connection with Smith – in return, Smith charged Cowdery with stealing, lying, perjury, counterfeiting, adultery, and being the leader of a "gang of scoundrels of the deepest degree!"
Book of Mormon witness Martin Harris was first a Quaker, then a Universalist, then a Restorationist, then a Baptist, then a Presbyterian, and then a Mormon – until excommunicated by the Mormon Church in 1837 – after which time he changed his religion eight more times. Harris claimed he saw Jesus in the shaped of a deer and had walked with Him two or three miles; the devil resembled a jackass, with very short, smooth hair similar to a mouse. He prophesied that by 1838 Smith's church would be so large that there would be no need for a president of the United States. Smith would claim Harris had "given loose to all kinds of abominations, lying, cheating, swindling, and all kinds of debauchery."
You can read more about some of the issues concerning the Book of Mormon witnesses HERE.
Depends on what cheek itches.
And the usual suspects try to establish a PC taboo by slinging the term ‘bigotry’ around. Did you think you were fooling someone with that PC whine?
Typical Mormonism tactic. you’re so delightsome, such a sterling example of what Mormonism does to the human soul. You would make lemons blush.
Tinfoil is of not use with the hive.
I am addressing the “constant barrage.” I didn’t say not to take it into consideration. I’m saying enough is enough. Can we move on to the position the candidates advocate.
“Joseph would put the seer stone into a hat and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the translation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to O. Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to brother Joseph to see if it were correct, then it would disappear and another character with the interpretation would appear.” - David Whitmer
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not what I said, I said you changed the wording just to make it a lie.
Um, no, the wording is just as it came from Whitmer himself. If the truth is too tough for you to grapple with, you should head somewhere that fantasies will not be challenged and you can live in blissful ignorance.
The ‘translation’ procedure described by Whitmer is accurate, in his own words, and quite believable when you consider Joseph Smith’s earlier, pre-Golden Bible days of money-digging using a seer stone in his hat. That is all documented and not up for dispute.
And you are not American.
Well who the hell put you in charge of deciding who is an American. That’s another thing wrong. People like you telling someone they hardly know that they’re not American. The Bataan Death March made me an American. What makes you an American, telling everyone who’s religion is better than everyone else’s?
I am not a Mormon.
The ‘translation’ procedure described by Whitmer is accurate, in his own words, and quite believable when you consider Joseph Smith’s earlier, pre-Golden Bible days of money-digging using a seer stone in his hat. That is all documented and not up for dispute.
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Well, there’s the first problem.
Joseph Smith translated the alleged Golden Plates not with the Urim and thummin, but with....get this.....yes, Southpark was quite accurate.......putting a rock in his hat, pulling the hat over his face, so as to exclude all light, and speaking words that were then written down by his scribes.
95% of all Mormons don’t know it happened this way as they have been told a different, more glorius and fantastic story.
But, the way it happened, as I have described above, is an account given by one of the three attesting witnesses to the veracity of the whole story, as well as Joseph Smith’s own moth
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Go back to the your original posting, not the cleaned up version you posted later. Be truthful.
It happened as described by Whitmer, as described in Southpark. Learn it, live it.
The fairy tale version, painted in such a way as to portray JS sitting there scanning through the plates at a table is pure baloney.
Sorry, Dude, you believe in a whitewashed fairy tale.
‘translation’
The fairy tale version
If the truth is too tough for you to grapple with,
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By small changes in his words, to something that is inaccurate and sarcastic, is using half-truths to create an impression that was not in what Brother Whitmer said.
The truth is not a problem, it is the lies created by you and others by changing things just a little, creating misdirection and false impressions.
I do not know about you, but the sad thing is, many people really believe this kind of misdirection is truth and then pass it on.
fred
So, of the MANY accounts out there from contemporary, unbiased sources, you still think I posted lies. Whatever.....
[BTW - unbiased does not mean anything said against your cult is wrong. It simply means they have no ax to grind and what they have stated is simple truth. It flies in the face of your fairy tale; that would be the problem you have with it.]
Delusional and unwilling to look at facts. I feel sorry you cannot let go. Oh well, Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Decide if this word is the word of someone trying to help someone to understand your point of view, or is it a word the makes you look like your are just jamming us.
There are a lot here who only want to jam the Mormons.
a few:
your cult
your fairy tale
I feel sorry you cannot
putting a rock in his hat
‘translation’
The fairy tale version
is too tough for you to grapple with,
Your choice, jam or help, it is the tone of the words that make the difference.
fred
If you cannot believe the words of your own leaders, I cannot help you.
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What I am saying is not getting across. Either I am doing a poor job of saying it, or you do not care to see what you are saying from your audience’s views.
I will reply as if I am not doing a good job.
You take the words of our writers and leaders, and reword them into your language. Thous, something that was spoken of with respect and honer, is now coming out sounding like a piece of garbage. It may mean the same to you, but it does not to us.
Try this truth on for size and see how you feel:
YOU WORSHIP A DEMIGOD!
The fact that Joseph Smith used the Urim & Thummim to translate the BOM & for other uses is backed historically as a viable practice in the Bible. Are you indicating those portions of the Bible might be a fairy tale?
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