Posted on 12/16/2007 11:15:52 PM PST by Mobile Vulgus
Mormons aren't Christians ...
... and other thoughts on religion and politics sure to get your blood boiling
Herewith, my views on religion and the politics of the present moment, with something to offend just about everyone:
1. Mormons aren't Christians. I don't mean that as a criticism, only as a descriptive phrase. When Mormons claim Jesus Christ as their savior, there's no reason to doubt their sincerity and good will, or even to deny that they are in some way followers of Christ. Yet Mormonism rejects foundational doctrines of traditional Christian orthodoxy, such that it is impossible to reconcile with normative Christianity.
2. Anyway, the Latter-day Saints church teaches that all other Christian churches are apostate. A heretic is someone who rejects one or more doctrines of religion, but an apostate is someone who has rejected the religion entirely. How is it, exactly, that you can get mad when people you regard as apostates consider you to be ... apostate? How does that work?
3. Theologically, this is a big deal. But politically, so what? Mormons vote like Southern Baptists and come down on the same side of most issues of public morality like conservative Christians do. If you're a socially conservative lawmaker, wouldn't you rather have a Mormon in your legislative foxhole than a Kennedy-style cafeteria Catholic or progressive mainline Protestant? I'm no Romney fan, but is there really no meaningful political difference between Good-Mormon Mitt and Bad-Catholic Rudy, to say nothing of Liberal-Protestant Hillary?
4. There are plenty of good reasons for conservative Christians not to vote for Mr. Romney, but his religious beliefs are not among them. Do Christians want to be in the position of rejecting a candidate whose political views and moral values they agree with, solely because they don't like his religion?
(Excerpt) Read more at dallasnews.com ...
Last I read Dreher is Eastern Orthodox.
From Wikipedia
On October 12, 2006, he publicly announced his conversion to Eastern Orthodoxy.
Butr Eastern Orthodox would also say Luther was a heretic.
Mary Todd Lincoln was Presbyterian.
I told him if that was the case I would stay Baptist since perpetual virginity bothered me and it’s in the creed.
You need to take a second look at the Creeds. There is NOTHING in the Apostles, Nicene or even Athanasian Creeds about perpetual virginity.
I'll see your (non) filioque and raise you an "Immaculate Conception"
j/k, a little....
To be a Christian is to believe that Jesus Christ is your Savior and the Son of God. Mormons believe that. Hence they are Christians. Regardless of what sect of Christianity you are in, you cannot call yourself a Christian without believing Jesus Christ is your Savior and the Son of God. Granted Mormons worship differently than Baptists, but Baptists worship differently than Presbyterians, Presbyterians worship differently than Methodists, Methodists worship differently than Pentecostals, Pentecostal worship differently than Lutheran, and Lutheran worship different than Catholics. My History teacher once said that "All Catholics are Christians. Not all Christians are Catholic". Very well put. We are all Christians that believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior and the Son of God. So no more of this diatribe that Mormons are not Christians. I am Baptist by the way.
The innate human desire to revere rulebooks, and to exalt the rules of one's own tribe over those of another, usually triumphs over genuine spiritual insight.
Most of us never lose the desire to build a tree fort and put up a "No Gurlz Alowed" sign - we just shift it to the church. ;)
Christians are Trinitarians. If you do not believe that Christ is Immanuel (God With Us), you are not a Christian. If you believe that Jesus is merely the Son of God, you place Jesus under God. That means you view Jesus as either an angel or you are a polytheist unless you just chalk it up as a Holy Mystery.
Trinitarians see the Lamb seated on the Throne.
Granted, most Protestant pew sitters are completely confused by the Trinity and probably agree more with the Mormon point of view. That’s been my experience. Go figure.
Yep,
“The Visible Voice of the Author” is what I call it—
(IOW, if I was writing a holy book, you’d find lots of recipes and pet stories).
“So no more of this diatribe that Mormons are not Christians.”
Yes, moderator. Oh, wait a minute, you aren’t a moderator.
It isn’t how people worship that makes them a Christian or not, it’s WHO they worship and what they believe about the God they worship. If you knew more about the Mormon beliefs and doctrines I think you would not be so quick to proclaim that Mormons are Christians. That isn’t to say that none of them are Christians, but it they are they would have to deny a lot of their own beliefs. Read post #118 and #119.
If you are really interested in knowing more about the Mormon beliefs I suggest you read what FReeper Elsie has posted on this subject. She gets most of her information from the Mormon book itself. It’s quite enlightening.
Seems like sound reasoning to me.
Of the leaders of all major religions, Jesus was the only one to claim divinity. Either he was mad, a liar, or he was who He claimed to be. Since no other actions indicate madness or bad character, we can assume the latter with moral certainty.
Lewis could have strengthened his argument with the following line of reasoning. First, without faith, one can accept the Bible as the best attested-to historical document of its era, with the existence of more than 500 copies dating from before the year 300 A.D. Within these recorded writings, Jesus made verifiable predictions, most notably, that he would establish a church against which the gates of hell would not prevail.
Looking at history, we can see that the Catholic Church has existed since Pentecost. This Church possesses an unbroken, non-contradictory body of dogmatic teaching, and an unbroken line of successors to Peter. There exists no comparable institution in world history, thus supporting Jesus' prophecy. We can then conclude, without resorting to fideism, that Jesus was who he claimed to be, and that the Cathoilc Church is the church that Christ founded. This Church affirms the inspiration of Scripture, and thus the validity of all of Jesus' statements. We reach these conclusions without resorting to circular reasoning. This proof is based on the simple premise that the Bible is an historical document.
As additional evidence of the nature of the Catholic Church, there exist today ongoing miracles, like the eucharistic miracle of Lanciano, that are associated with Christ's Church.
“Mormons believe that Jesus was the divine son of God who died and was resurrected, and therefore they are Christians, regardless of any other doctrinal differences. To say otherwise, in my opinion, is just playing with words. “
All of the Christian churches agree that Mormons are not Christian and have to be baptized.
The Vatican, the Greek Orthodox, all the rest are in agreement on Mormonism.
http://www.catholic.com/library/noncatholic_groups.asp
Here is Southern baptist http://www.4truth.net/site/c.hiKXLbPNLrF/b.3471385/k.6CD7/Are_Mormons_Christians.htm
Lutheran http://www.lcms.org/pages/print.asp?
NavID=12308&path=%2Fpages%2Frpage.asp&print=1
Assemblies of God http://pentecostalevangel.ag.org/Articles2002/4579_spencer.cfm
United Methodist http://archives.umc.org/umns/news_archive1999.asp?story=%7B3BE161B2-8603-4B32-A64F-0C9D2CBFAF85%7D&mid=3368
Presbyterians http://www.pcusa.org/interfaith/study/lds.htm
Here is the Greek Othodox position on mormonism as Christian.
http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7101.asp
cults in America http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7075.asp
Ah, the empty argument of "do not judge others" rears it's brainless head again.Maybe I should add humor or sarc tags so you can follow me, I know, I can add /Hypocrite tags! Like this
Name calling, and dismissing someone's argument for being "Stupid" In one shot, wow what a sentence...
Unfortunately, you then say...
I don't have space to discuss here-- do you own research
LOL! You're stupid, but I won't help you, go try again so I can make more fun of you without having to post anything except how much better "I" am than you.
You should look up this word, it's not something that Goes well with a "Christ centered" life.
Also, Christianity, true Christianity has been around for 2000 years, but Mormonism has only been around 200 years.....so why should anyone think it's the TRUE religion?
Good point. But I think Luther’s negatives were common traits of his time.
For a great Christian read on our history as God’s Family, I highly recommend “A Father Who Keeps His Promises” by Dr Scott Hahn.
Well, one thing is for certain that this presidential race has brought out: Mormons have revealed themselves to have absolutely NO tolerance for the rights of Christians to believe what they want. In this regard, they are acting exactly like Liberals who are tolerant of everything but other's intolerance.
If the typical Christian Evangelical wants to regard...
Mormons as non-Christian cultists then that is their freedom.
Mormonism as a blasphemous caricature of true Christianity then that is their freedom.
Joseph Smith as a false prophet currently enjoying an eternity of roasting in hell then that is their freedom.
The current prophet and President of Mormonism as treasuring up wrath as a God hating goat then that is their freedom.
And, their ain't a damn thing a single Mormon can do about it. They can whine; they can moan; they can call the Evangelical a hateful judgmental bigot. About all you can comfort yourself with is that, in your mind their exaltation will stop abruptly and they will have to be your servants in the next life (if I remember my Mormonism correctly).
About the only thing Mormons here can really do, and crying to censor the comments by the mean old Evangelicals won't accomplish anything, is try and convince everyone that a Mormon president isn't the end of the world. Here's a hint: Quit trying to convince the Evangelical you are a Christian (a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still) and quit calling him a bigot (that will win support) and start trying to hide Romney's liberal record (good luck there). (Ok, it was 3 hints!)
Isn't America grand!!!
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