Posted on 12/09/2007 12:49:26 PM PST by aomagrat
Edited on 12/09/2007 12:59:09 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
[I waited 45 seconds and actually posted something substantial--Ed.]
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — At least four people were shot outside of a Colorado Springs church on Sunday, but it was not immediately known whether the shootings were related to an earlier shooting about 70 miles away, authorities said.
Yeah, I got that feeling too that he believed there was a Heaven but he couldn’t meet the requirements.
Yes, like everywhere else in the world, there are phonies in churches. There are cliques and there is backstabbing going on. But when you can look beyond yourself a little bit, you are able to see these things as opportunities for ministry rather than taking them personally.
There is a popular song out there right now that illustrates the self-focused attitude. I don't know the artist or all of the lyrics, but here is a couple of lines:
"Because of you, I never strayed too far from the sidewalk,
Because of you, I always played real close so I won't get hurt..."
The singer goes on to lament that her life is ruined because her father was overbearing, overprotective and cold. Well okay lady, you had a hard childhood, but it is time to go on. There is a world of other people out there who could use your unique talents whatever they may be. The attitude exemplified in this song is encouraged in our culture. If you don't have a healthy "self-esteem" you may as well give up.
A great irony in this episode is that the essence of Christianity is "other-centeredness" or simply love. Perhaps that has something to do with why the shooter hated Christians. Their very essence was threateningly alien to him.
Oh and by the way, this outward looking attitude would also help in toning down some of the high spirited posts I see on this very thread. Read my tagline.
God can bring good out of something bad and we see this often in accomplished adults who had problem childhoods.
Thanks for posting the link, and finding the article, too. Reading through some of the comments left on the site is very interesting... and yes of course, there are those pointing to the gun laws yet again “an abuse of the 2nd Amendment” while conveniently forgetting that an armed citizen stopped what would’ve been an incredible massacre... How frustrating...
AP: Police say autopsy results show Colorado church gunman Matthew Murray killed himself.
>>”the little terrier naysayers get real annoying.”<<
Those ‘so-called’ little terriers could take yer leg off! LOL! ;-)
>>”Police say autopsy results show Colorado church gunman Matthew Murray killed himself.”<<
He will be remembered as a deranged coward - but no one will remember his name.
Children brought up in a religious household can have trouble - especially the younger they are and the more immature they are - comprehending two very different messages: On the one hand, they are told of God's gift of grace (as opposed to works). But then there's the other message that any parent, religious or not, has to impart to their children - and that's a message comprised almost entirely of "works". Eg, you have to do your homework or you can't use the internet. You have to do your chores if you want to get paid. And so on and on. Even at school, it's works-based - ie do the work or you don't get the A.
Basically, you have to use the carrot and stick with them (works), while simultaneously telling them you love them no matter what they do (grace). But the younger the child, the harder it is to understand this dual, seemingly conflicting message. They see things on a simpler level, where discipline looks to them to be the opposite of love. "If you really loved me, you wouldn't ground me!"
They don't feel like they're loved while being disciplined. And I think that can spill over, especially the younger they are, to their view of God. The message of "100% grace, 0% works" can get contaminated by the fact that their day to day relationship with their parents is "50% works, 50% grace" (or some other ratio, depending on the parents). And so, as seen in Murray's writings about laying awake at night worrying about his salvation, they don't or they can't believe the message of God's grace, and instead are certain that works just MUST be part of the requirement, and that they are failing to measure up.
I looked through all of your posts in this thread & take note that you have made zero contributions that were on topic. In the sphere of netiquette, there’s some words for that.
The religious upbringing you describe may not be the religious upbringing he experienced. In fact, I doubt very much that it was anywhere close to it.
Welllll, online, they are mostly toothless clueless sorts.
But the furry real kind—for sure! LOL.
And the bigger ones, for durn sure!
Given the plenty of excitement in my life, I never felt compelled to get a terrier.
Having fiesty furr balls boinging boinging boinging around always demanding to play ball or chase rabbits is not my idea of a relaxation aid! LOL.
Collies—Lassie type collies are my preference . . . though I could do without the shedding.
Alas, in my adult life, have moved far too often and too far to have a dog.
You make excellent points, imho.
Scripture talks in the OT about the father training the child in the way that child should go . . . along the way . . . as in beside the father in the father’s work-day.
We sure have gotten away from that.
But the object lessons in daily life are so rarely illustrated, commentary-ed on etc. by Dads to their children.
There’s even opportunities in movies and TV shows that folks ignore.
If a balanced Christian world view is not ‘infected’ into the children at an early age and all along the way . . . parents WILL answer to God as well as the pain of watching the consequences of their schlockiness lived out in the pains of their children.
And certainly none do it perfectly. But that’s where God’s Grace comes in. Earnest balanced Biblical effort is enough. God DOES fill-in the gaps.
Uhhhh,
Oh, Dear . . .
Do you mean . . . oh, perish the thought . . .
simply stalking and posting ornery, largely off-the-wall diatribes for personal vendetta, personal ego reasons
is not
kosher netiquette????
Oh, Dear.
The card carrying naysayers may have to organize a protest march over that one! LOL.
/s
I think you’re right.
Sounds like there were some very, VERY serious flaws in the upbringing from several perspectives, including the religious one.
And, it sounds like he was likely not the only ‘disturbed’ individual in the home.
There were several points the first 18 years of life that I might have gone down his path.
Thankfully, I hated rock music and a list of other such evils that might have hooked me in.
And, GOD WAS MY ONLY COMFORT AND SECURITY.
Interesting... I still praise Miss Assam. She is obviously the one who turned the tide and forced his hand (made him realize he was not going to achieve his desired outcome and thus killed himself).
I wonder though... Did they say how many shots he took? Did he shoot himself in the head before he died from the injuries of the other bullets? I certainly hope that this is not the authorities attempting to squash the testimony/witness of Miss Assam...
I have the very same questions you do.
I think in time we will get enough little snippets, that the whole picture will come together.
I liked rock music (well, it was more like pop rock) growing up. Fortunately today there is also alternative rock music, Christian rock, to draw people in to God’s message of hope and love. It is hard to ever understand why someone chooses the path this young man chose.
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