Romney Surges in S.C., Florida

Dry Fly Politics ^ | 10/23/07 | Steve

[Reaganesque]

Tuesday, October 23rd, 2007...8:57 am

Romney Surges in S.C., Florida

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In vastly underreported election news, recent polls are showing a Romney surge in both South Carolina and Florida. Of course no one knows this because no one has mentioned it. We would all think that Romney was flopping around like a fish out of water in the Southern states according to some recent posts that have been written about each state. Of course, logic would tell us that Romney should not be doing well in either of these states: He is Mormon, Slick, and a NorEaster. Nevertheless, he is polling well and will likely be right in the thick of the races come January. Here are the recent polls:

South Carolina

Oct 02, Insider Advantage Poll: Thompson 21%, Romney and Giuliani 16%

Sep 26-29, ARG Poll: Romney 26%, Giuliani 23%, Thompson 10%

Sep 26-27, Rasmussen: Thompson 24%, Giuliani 20%, Romney 15%

Additionally, the Romney campaign performed an internal poll, here are the results:

Romney Internal Poll: Thompson: 24%, Romney 20%, Giuliani 15%

So, in South Carolina Romney is right in the thick of the fight. It appears that the recent condemnation of Giuliani by Christian Right leaders is having a detrimental effect and that the advertising that Romney has been airing over the last month is causing some movement. However, it should be noted that the same article that reported the Romney internal poll caveats the results by saying that this was before the Bob Jones endorsement. A separat poll says that 27% of South Carolinans are more likely to support Romney due to this, but 32% are less likely. It will be interesting to see what effect the evangelical endorsements will have.

In Florida, Romney also continues to surge, and Florida is arguably more important a victory for any of the candidates. Here are the recent polls:

Oct 1-8, Quinnipiac: Giuliani: 27%, Thompson 19%, Romney 17%

Oct. 2, Insider Advantage: Giuliani 29%, Thompson 19%, Romney 16%

Granted, these polls are nothing to get thrilled over as Giuliani has a sizeable lead. However, all previous polling had Romney hovering between 7% and 10% in Florida. So a 6-7 point jump in a month is significant and he is really the only one gaining steam in these states, whereas Giuliani and Thompson are plateauing.

It should also be mentioned that all the hubub about Huckabee or Thompson surging against Romney in Iowa should be somewhat muted by the most recent Iowa poll that gave Romney an impressive 14 point lead:

Oct 10-14, Strategic Vision Poll: Romney-27, Giuliani-13, Huckabee-12, Thompson-10.

I wonder if this will get the coverage that the poll placing Huckabee within 6 points will get. I doubt it.

All in all, while Romney has stalled in some places, so have all the candidates. The race is a real crap shoot, there is far from a difinitive front runner. However, it still looks to be a Giuliani-Romney finale.

[Grig]

“The kind of “bigotry” you practice is borrowed wholesale from the Jesse Jacksons, the Al Sharptons and all the other race-baiters that try to shut down anyone that disagrees with their (and yours) personal agenda by slinging the liberal slime around.”

You walk around and say ‘I would never vote for a negro’ or ‘I would never vote for a Jew’ and you won’t have to worry about just JJ or AS attacking you (although they might support you on that second one) because it really is bigotry. Likewise saying ‘I would never vote for a Mormon’ is bigotry and calling me names for pointing it out doesn’t change that.

“One wonders, since you are Canadian, if you think you can force application of whatever the Canadian version of “Free Speech” is on the American citizens you so readily slander daily.”

I haven’t tried to stop anyone from saying anything, I’m just exercising MY right to reply.

“I, personally give as much credence to you and your opinions of us as I give Vicente Fox on his.”

gasp! Oh how will I go on! greyfoxx39 hasn’t instantly changed his mind just because I disagreed with him! What shall I do! [/sarc]

“Would you be so interested in and vocal on, the election of the American President if a mormon was not a candidate?”

Yes in fact I was, both in 2000 and 2004 right here on FR. And when it comes to this election, 90% of my comments are about addressing the lies and distortions being spread about my faith rather than the political debate.

[Spiff]

I challenge anyone who does not agree with my recollection, to attend the nearest LDS Chapel on November 4th (Testimony Meeting) and get back to me.

I attend Sacrament Meeting and listen to the testimonies that are borne once a month. You have grossly mischaracterized what is typically said. Which shouldn't surprise anyone who has read your ranting here. But to belittle the precious and personal statements of individual faith and belief in Christ and His gospel, expressed by your fellow human beings (including little children), demonstrates even more completely your lack of character and Christian compassion.

I understand that you allowed yourself to have a miserable time while a member of the LDS Church. You could have just walked away and left it at that. But instead you feel that you have to spread your misery and bitterness here, tearing down other people's faith, and sowing division and contention amongst your fellow FReepers and conservatives. It's sad, really.

[FastCoyote]

The fact is, if Romney is the candidate get ready for tons and tons of uncomfortable questions about his religion and especially the enforcer squad that makes sure no one speaks negatively about the hive.

Why would any sane voter want to be discussing golden plates, magic underwear and seer stones for the next nine years?

[FastCoyote]

“What church do you attend? I will tell you upfront that I want that information so that I can research all the dirt on it and spread it all over FR.”

I’ll beat you too it, Martin Luther was at times an anti semite, a beer drinker and started quite a few wars.

On the other hand, he never believed he was God, he admitted his faults and never claimed to gets his inspiration by looking into his hat through ridiculous seer stones. Nor did he claim magic underwear could ward off evil lock the superstitious lot Mitt belongs to.

So, flame away, Lutherans are tied to the man like you are to Joseph Smith. If Luther fails, or Lutheranism fails, that won’t mean diddly squat, but if the validity of Joseph Smith fails, your church is revealed as a bunch of superstitious groupies who only stay in line because of the fear of doctrines like blood atonement and the prettied up techniques of shunning and excommunication.

[colorcountry]

the Challenge stands spiffy. Everyone here can acknowledge that you and I have our own particular bias. That’s why I issued the challenge.

Random Wards in Random Cities accross our nation. There won’t be any time to disseminate a warning. Let’s let the good freeping people at FR attend a “Fast and Testimony Meeting.” They can then report back. Will you listen?

Freepers....Look up your local LDS (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) Ward House and attend their meeting. You report...you decide who is lying and who is telling the truth.

[Grig]

So if Rudy gets the nod we can expect questions about what makes ‘Holy Water’ holy, transubstantiation, the inquisition, vampire-repelling crosses, and how Mary managed to give birth without losing her ‘physical virginity’?

I doubt Mitt’s nomination and election would get the kind of reaction you expect, but even if it did people who pursue a path of trying to gin up religious bigotry will only marginalize themselves. People are trying this now to stop him from getting the nomination and it doesn’t seem to be working too well.

Mitt’s biggest challenge will be getting the nomination, not winning the White House after getting the nomination.

[Old Mountain man]

Well, she mentioned one with Benny Hinn, Morris Cerillo and Creflo Dollar as leaders.

[Old Mountain man]

Well, I have known those who were excommunicated, for good cause. I have never seen anyone shunned. Of course, I have been shunned by Lutherans.

Your church was not founded upon any particular principle other than protest against the Catholic Church. Therefore, you have no claim on a priesthood lineage back to Peter and thus Jesus.

Our accounts are logical and consistent. Miracles occur. We worship God with peace and joy, not in fear of anything.

Neither do we hate or really find the desire in our hearts to put other churches down. Some of us, as individuals, are tired of the constant attacks and would wish some of you attackers would keep your own counsel.

Bless you.

[Old Mountain man]

Don’t worry, kid, I’ll be there.

[FastCoyote]

“So if Rudy gets the nod we can expect questions about what makes ‘Holy Water’ holy, transubstantiation, the inquisition, vampire-repelling crosses, and how Mary managed to give birth without losing her ‘physical virginity’?”

Actually, no, we won’t expect that. Last time I checked, the universe wasn’t fair.

Catholicism can trace it’s way back 2000 years, so the bugs have been debated for that entire period. Mormonism has been with us 180 years, and has a well documented history of fraud on the part of its bank fraud/tinpot general/polygamist founder, Joseph Smith.

Of course, the questions that apply to Romney apply on top of those of Giulani, unless you are arguing Romney isn’t a Christian.

Moreover, certain questions speak to the psychological stability of a man. Last time I checked, our psyche wards were full of people who thought they were becoming Gods.

So, I’m sorry the universe isn’t fair. Next time I become God, I’ll change that for you.

[colorcountry]

Yeppers, and you know your Church is true and that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God, and the Gordon B Hinkley is a Prophet, I’m sure.

[colorcountry]

*I did? Where?

[Spiff]

Freepers....Look up your local LDS (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) Ward House and attend their meeting. You report...you decide who is lying and who is telling the truth.

Oh, I have NO problem with anyone and everyone showing up at church on the 1st Sunday of the month or any Sunday at all. In fact, I'll look up the address and time of their closest LDS Chapel and meetings for them. Thank you. You may have just introduced someone else to the true Gospel of Jesus Christ with your challenge.

[colorcountry]

Most people can see through it. There is no doubt that some will fall for the deception, most won’t. Many will be the wiser for it.

I have no fear that my fellow conservative can see through the lies of a fraudulent con-man.

1-2% of Americans are LDS. Of those only 1/2 or less are active (believers). The numbers aren’t good for you Spiff, no matter how much you “faith” tells you they are.

[JRochelle]

Problem is I would have to travel quite a ways to attend an LDS church.

No thanks. :)

[JRochelle]

I don’t know who that last two are but if you start mocking Benny Hinn I will join you.

He is a huckster and a fraud.

[Grig]

Mitt has accomplished far more than you I’m willing to bet, so if you think he lacks ‘psychological stability’, what is your excuse? Mitt must be doing real well the way you guys are so foaming at the mouth these days.

[FastCoyote]

“Mitt has accomplished far more than you I’m willing to bet, so if you think he lacks ‘psychological stability’, what is your excuse? Mitt must be doing real well the way you guys are so foaming at the mouth these days.”

Except I wasn’t born with a silver spoon in my mouth (daddy Governor/American Motors president, mother senate candidate). And you don’t know me from Joe Doe, but I’m on my way to having another half million dollar year and I’m younger than Mitt, so I wouldn’t bet the farm on me not accomplishing quite a lot financially in my life. And accomplishing a lot politically for that matter, though I tend to operate behind the scenes instead of needing a political pulpit to pacify my Godlike ego )a la Mitt).

Moreover, I tend to believe the power of our nation is in individuals and not in perfect haired politicians. It isn’t like Mitt created the Olympics (lot of poor people that helped by the way), not did he create Massachusetts (though he sure butchered their health system), nor would the US economy have dissolved without Bain Capital (there’s no lack of MBA’s to fill his shoes).

So, all in all what you are arguing is that without your God (i.e. Bishop Mitt) the whole world would be a much darker place. In contrast, I’m suggesting that he was, and is, eminently replaceable.

And do you really think that without his daddy’s last name and being first named after Willard Marriot and without the backing of the Mormon church, he’d have been allowed to run the Olympics? ? ? ? Oh come now, I know you are making big funny.

[ComeUpHigher]

As with you, I welcome the invitation for those who are genuinely interested in learning about the nature of our services on Sunday.

During my time serving as a missionary, I attended numerous services of other churches. One of the most interesting experiences I had attending one of these church events occurred in Albany, NY. I was riding on the city bus and struck up a conversation with a gentleman who was a pastor for a local Pentecostal church. After having a pleasant conversation, he gave me a flyer and invited me to attend a “revival” meeting the following night where a female evangelist visiting from Philadelphia would conduct the revival.

The following evening my missionary companion and I attended the revival service. It was in an older, smaller church. The church was about 2/3 filled and had an aisle down the middle leading to an altar. The pastor I visited with the previous day started the revival meeting. He exuded much energy and enthusiasm to excite the attendants. Music was played that was loud and raucous and the attendants became more excited and, being led by the pastor, began swaying back and forth and raising their hands over their head and clapping. The pastor then called out the female evangelist who really began whipping the attendants into a frenzy with her repeated shouts of “hallelujah.” The female pastor then shouted to one side of the attendants: “Give me a J.” To which the attendants on that side shouted “J.” She then shouted to the other side: “Give me an “E” and they shouted “E.” She then shouted to the original side: Give me an “S” to which they shouted “S.” She shouted to the other side: “Give me a “U” and that side shouted “U.” Finally, she turned to the original side and shouted give me an “S” and the attendants shouted “S.” She then screamed: “What does that spell?” And the attendants screamed back “Jesus.” She screamed the same question two more times with the same response screamed back to her. All the while, loud music was playing, the attendants were swaying back and forth and clapping their hands together as they screamed their responses to this evangelist. It was a very unusual experience, like being at a football game and watching a cheerleader getting the crowd worked up into a frenzy.

At a later point in the revival, the female evangelist invited any who were possessed with a devil that they wanted to be cast out to come forth. In response, a man came forward who kneeled before the female evangelist. The evangelist invited several other attendants to join her and they place their hands on his head and she began screaming “Jesus” at the man. She literally put her head a few inches away from his ear screaming “Jesus” over and over again. I was worried that his ear drum was being damaged. After what seemed a long time of doing this, she suddenly stopped and everyone lifted their hands off the man’s head and he collapsed in a heap on the floor. At that point, the female evangelist left the man on the floor and continued with the revival meeting. After a few minutes, the man picked himself off the floor and returned to his seat.

After more music playing and singing, crowd swaying and hand clapping, collection trays were passed around soliciting donations from the attendants and the meeting ended.

When I left that revival meeting, I had been mildly entertained, but had not received any spiritual edification. The revival meeting was all about ramping up people’s emotions. As I reflected on my experience at that revival meeting, it caused me to think of the prophet Elijah’s experience on Mount Horeb as he hid from Jezebel. There was much commotion with the earthquake, rushing wind and fire, but the Lord was not present in them. It was the still small voice which the Lord used. And so it was with the revival meeting. There was a lot of commotion and frenzy with the loud, raucous music, the “Jesus” cheer and shouting, the crowd swaying and hand clapping, but no still small voice.

Over my years of attending fast and testimony meetings, I have heard many simple, humble testimonies borne expressing love for God and Jesus, acknowledging and giving thanks for Jesus as their personal Savior and Redeemer, and sincere expressions of devotion to God and Christ. On many of these occasions, I have heard the still small voice speak to me and I have been spiritually edified and strengthened in my own personal testimony of Jesus as my Savior and Redeemer. It is true that there are some whose testimonies wander and some children who bear testimonies with help from a parent, but I would never criticize for, as Christ taught, “Suffer little children and forbid them not to come unto me for of such is the kingdom of heaven.” While it may be true that some bear testimonies that may appear to lack spiritual substance, I can honestly say that I have never attended a testimony meeting where I have failed to hear someone bear witness of Jesus Christ and their Lord and Savior.

[Elsie]

“Then you discover she’s diehard LDS. And you realize that LDS believe that a woman needs a worthy Mormon husband to get to the highest level of heaven—the celestial kingdom. And since that’s not “you,” you realize either (a) you become a convert to advancing what she believes in your life; or (b) you realize this relationship would never go anywhere long term, so you remain disinterested.... “ FreeRepublic really should be above this level of religious bigotry.

this IS WHAT you CONSIDER bigotry???

It's going to get real interesting, from your perspective, later in this thread!