Posted on 10/16/2007 10:27:25 AM PDT by eraser2005
NEW YORK, CNNMoney.com -- The Toyota brand has lost its top position for iron-clad reliability, according to an influential Consumer Reports survey released Tuesday.
The survey dropped Toyota from first to fifth place - behind Honda, Acura, Scion and Subaru - in average vehicle reliability. The rankings are based on average predicted reliability for all models sold under a given brand.
Brands made by Toyota Motor Co. and Honda Motor Co. still dominate the rankings: Scion is Toyota's low-priced car brand and Acura is Honda's luxury car brand.
Consumer Reports said it no longer recommends V6 versions of Toyota's Camry or V8 versions of its Tundra pick-up because of poor reliability.
In the past, because Toyota (Charts) products have so consistently proved reliable, the magazine would assume at least average reliability for Toyota's brand new cars, without waiting for survey data from owners.
But from now on, the magazine will wait for a full year of reliability survey data to come in before it recommends a Toyota product - as it does with most other manufacturers.
(Excerpt) Read more at money.cnn.com ...
Who said it was more reliable? I was just pointing out that with the advent of EFI and electronic ignition, having a car start up after a period of inactivity is no big deal.
And, having rebuilt many Brit cars, 10 years of garage storage does not require WD40 in the cylinders. Remember, the Brit cars coat their cylinders with oil anyway. :P
The longest time I’ve seen a Jaguar sit and still fire up without anything but a battery recharge/fresh battery was 5 years - the owner had signed up for military service and hadn’t returned for that long.
“Oh, it starts right up after sitting for 6 months” is no big deal. Even my lawnmower can do that. :P
My bet is that we have spent hundreds of billions to achieve very little
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As far as reliability is concerned, I can tell you without a doubt that we have spend untold zillions and gotten nowhere.
THere were some old motors from the 40s and 50s that would literally run forever with just basic maintenance and a simple ringjob and valve job now and then. Old flathead engines were so over built it was rediculous. They were infinitely repairable. The best ones were built by a company called “continental”. They are still in business but I believe they currently only make air cooled engines for small airplanes, such as cessna.
The difference between those old motors and todays motors is that todays motors are IDIOT proof and the old ones weren’t. You didn’t have good fan belts, radiator hoses, gaskets, etc back then. You actually had to check these things or you would ruin the whole motor. And the points and carb had to be adjusted from time to time, and they usualy had manual chokes and weak 6 volt batteries and fuel pumps that needed to be manually primed before starting. You could run your battery dead real easy and flood your engine real easy...again, not IDIOT proof. IDIOTS had a hard time with these motors. But if you had a brain and a few simple tools and even simpler skills, you would be alright.
Also, those engines didn’t have a very high output to displacement ratio. But that’s what made them so long lasting.
Anything that sits 10 years in an unheated shed or outdoors will need wd40. When a heavy cast iron object(engine block) is not kept in a climate controlled space, it sweats everytime the air temperature rises fast. You know what a glass of ice tea does on a hot summer day? That’s what your engine block does on every surface, inside and out. Drill presses, milling machines, and lathes do too, but that’s another matter.
Mouse urine does even more damage to ferrous based metals.
Brit cars coat every part of themselves with oil...internal and external...and parts of the driveway too.
Considering that CR reports that the V6 Camry and Tundra were below average in reliability, and that Chrysler *averages* just ever-so-slightly above average, that statement is obviously false.
Me too. I have a 4 cylinder 2005 Camry. It has plenty of power, gets decent mileage, and has been trouble-free for the first 50 thousand miles.
Thank you for keeping my Central Ohio economy healthy!!
That amounts to exactly 12 oil changes to date, or nearly 16,000 miles per oil change. The engine still runs good. The tranny is going out. And the bed is rusted pretty bad. It uses about a quarter of a quart of oil per dual tanks of gas.
How about an 86 chevy 1 ton with 180,000 miles and the same maintenance schedule. It’s condition is similar...well maybe a bit worse. Tranny is about shot. So is the differential. Engine runs great. Electrical system is pathetic...nothing works right. Body(what’s left of it) is held on by some bailing wire and sheet metal screws. Upholstery is totally gandhi...you like sittin on springs? I just did a tranny oil change on this truck about one year ago. It had the original oil and filter in it at that time. It's still got the original carburetor and it's never been rebuilt
Neither of these trucks have ever been rebuilt or had body work done. The engines are good. Everything else is bad.
Which defective 4.6s? I hadn’t heard of that.
Big whoop, I had a FORD LTD that I dogged to hell never changed the oil and could not get it to die... but does that mean it was the most reliable vehicle every produced? Hell no.
Right now I have a Chrysler (one of the least reliable manufacturers) that’s 12 years old with over 150k and the only non routine maintenance thing I’ve had to do to it is replace a head gasket.
Toyota’s reliability ratings across the board are more manipulation of statistics. I’m not saying they are bad cars, just the idea they are beyond reproach in reliability is nonsense, always has been.
The absolute best car I’ve owned personally in terms of reliability was a VW Fox GL.
Up to 99, all the Ford single cam 4.6L V8s have plastic intake manifolds that crack and leak coolant (best case scenario). Worst case is it blows the engine through sudden loss of coolant.
Oh, that one.
The PI Vics got the recall, and the granny vics were tuned and limited in a way that made bursting that seam pretty difficult.
But for those who did, well, Ford treated them like dirt. The part is $240 wholesale, and there’s got to be five-six hours labor.
I did mine myself, so it wasn’t too bad.
My 2 Dodge Intrepids were money sinks. I traded one in for a 2001 Toyota Sienna. Very good van but after driving it a few years, I can see now that while its been good, there are better products out there, and furthermore, a couple quality glitches have occurred that make me believe the CNN story here is correct.
I have since added an Acura TSX, and love the car so much that I've shifted my preference to Honda products over Toyota.
Oh, and the problem wasn’t actually the plastic intake manifold itself, but the coolant crossover (molded as part of the manifold) which had a long seam in the plastic. It wouldn’t seep or leak as much as BURST.
The replacement model is a plastic intake manifold with an aluminum coolant crossover subassembly.
Take the BLUE pill.
Feel it release your tensions.
Soon you will be back on planet Earth.
All will be well.
Take the BLUE pill now.
Take the BLUE pill now.
Take the BLUE pill now.
Take the BLUE pill now.
Take the BLUE pill now.
Take the BLUE pill now.
Take the BLUE pill now.
Take the BLUE pill now.
Take the BLUE pill now.
Take the BLUE pill now.
Take the BLUE pill now.
Take the BLUE pill now.
Take the BLUE pill now.
Take the BLUE pill now.
Yup, I was being oversimplistic - one of my relatives with a Mustang got bit by this problem, sued Ford, and won.
You see all of the older American vehicles on the road (I don’t see very many at all in my part of the world) because parts are cheap for American cars, which is good considering how many you’ll need!
IMHO, the best Japanese car out there (I own a 2000 civic with 145,000 miles. Runs like a trop still!)
The Corolla drags Toyota down. Nowhere as nice as my ‘79 Liftback.
Ford? Three words; Taurus, Fusion, crap.
My 97 Town Car has 298000 on the original drive train. No major engine, tranny or other work. I had the differential oil changed at 200,000 miles. I think it may have been a livery package, oh- and I bought it used for $6,600.00 when it had 65k on it.
Love, love, love my 2007 Highlander!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.