Posted on 10/09/2007 9:19:16 AM PDT by icwhatudo
Hello everyone, its been an interesting few days. I had no idea my post about the family used by democrats to push for expansion of the S-CHIP program would cause such a stir. There have been many questions and comments raised about me and my simple Google research that I thought I'd deal with them all on this post if it's ok with the Mods.
My interest in the S-CHIP issue came about because of the way it's portrayed in the media. President Bush's veto was of an EXPANSION of this health insurance program to include higher income families. It would not cut the program, (in fact Bush wants to increase funding), nor would it cause the Frost family to lose their coverage under it.
The Frost family choose to allow their son to give the democrat radio response to the president's veto. They choose to put their family story, picture of their home, and income information in the papers for all to see. Now that I look into the facts of that same story I'm accused of "invading their privacy" or "attacking a 12 year old boy". Could someone from Daily Kos, Think Progress, or Democratic Underground please cut and paste the part of my article that attacked the 12 year old boy?
The Baltimore Sun article about the family mentioned that the son attended Park school. I knew this was an expensive private school so I began to wonder why someone who could send their child there would need others to pay for their health insurance. It led to my use of Google to find out if there was information that the Baltimore Sun left out of the article. All the information I found I linked to in my post.
After posting my article a number of Freepers started emailing the story out to local papers and other blogs, talk show hosts, etc. It really exploded when Mark Steyn of National Review Online posted about it. From there it spread through the blogs including Michelle Malkin and even made it on the Rush Limbaugh's show. Last night ABC news online posted about the "firestorm in Washington" it was causing. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid was accusing GOP leadership aides of "pushing falsehood" and complained that Republican staffers where passing the information out to reporters.
Left wing sites have begun to hit back, questioning my information. Many are linking to these 5 points from Thinkprogress.org that I will comment on:
"1) Graeme has a scholarship to a private school. The school costs $15K a year, but the family only pays $500 a year."
For all the claims my research was poor...where's your link? $15,000? From my link to the schools tuition page:
Tuition for 2007-2008
Lower School $19,530
Middle School $19,530
Upper School $21,080
Where did you get your information the family was paying $500 per year? Was this from the talking points memo you got from Harry Reid spokesman Jim Manley? Did he tell you how long they’ve had those scholarships? Any idea why the tenant in the commercial building they own, Mike Reilly (who has known the Frosts for 10 years) said See "Update 2:50pm"it was his understanding the children’s grandparents paid the bill?
We can debate the amount they are paying, or the amount the grandparents are contributing, or the amount that is earned through scholarships but the fact remains the family is paying to send their child to a private school while asking others to pay for their health insurance. Are you claiming otherwise?
"2) His sister Gemma attends another private school to help her with the brain injuries that occurred due to her accident. The school costs $23,000 a year, but the state pays the entire cost."
Again no link but I heard this as well. It was why I stated in my article that: "His sister Gemma, also severely injured in the accident, attended the same school PRIOR to the accident"
Its funny how the left wing echo chamber is seizing on this point to somehow show my information was bad. That somehow I was saying she was still attending the Park School. Will you concede that my statement "His sister Gemma, also severely injured in the accident, attended the same school PRIOR to the accident" is 100% true? At the time they choose to not purchase health insurance, prior to the accident, at least 2 of their kids attended Park school.
"3) They bought their “lavish house” sixteen years ago for $55,000 at a time when the neighborhood was less than safe."
Your information is incorrect (and again fails to provide a link). "They" did not buy the house 16 years ago, Mr. Frost bought the home on his own on 11/30/1990. The couple was married in 1992, and it appears his wife paid him $52,500 to be added to the deed on 09/06/2005. Interesting that on the Department of Assessments and Taxation form under "Principal Residence:" it states "NO". Do they own a second home in addition to the commercial property? Also, please cut and paste from my article where I said they lived in a "Lavish house". Large house-yes, and nice kitchen from the photo.
"4) Last year, the Frost’s made $45,000 combined. Over the past few years they have made no more than $50,000 combined.
Again no link. What is the source of this claim? Not saying their reported income was not as you state, but as Mr. Frost set up a LLC would you concede its possible that reported income could be different than actual access to financial resources? Maybe those more familiar on why people set up LLC's can tell us what creative things can be done with finances this way.
"5) The state of Maryland has found them eligible to participate in the CHIP program."
Exactly! Thanks for making my point. Even with the private school you admit they are partially paying for, even with the home that is not their primary residence, even with the LLC they set up and purchased commercial property with, even with a tenant in the building they own...they still qualify! So why then do we need to expand the program to families with even higher incomes than the Frosts?
I am also a father of 4 and I live in a waterfront house. We have 2 boats and go to the beach for 2 weeks each year. All 4 of my kids go to private school. If the S-CHIP program is expanded...WE WILL QUALIFY! I'd love to use the savings from others paying for my kids health insurance to buy a new motor for my bass boat but is that what we really want from S-CHIP?
A few other points:
Some blogs, radio shows, etc have incorrectly stated that I claimed their house was bought for $485,000 or was worth $500,000 etc. My actual quote on this was:
"The current market value of their improved 3,040 SF home at 104 S Collington Ave is unknown but 113 S COLLINGTON AVE, also an end unit, sold for $485,000 this past March and it was only 2,060 SF."
I found a similar (actually smaller) home a few doors down that recently sold for $485,000. A Freeper early on in my original post linked a zillow estimate of $360,000. The taxation page assesses the home at $263,140 and we all know assessed values for taxes are lower than market price(at least in Maryland). Are there cheaper homes in the area that have not been renovated yet? Sure, but lets not miss the point here. This is not a family of renters, they own not only a 3,040 SF home but a commercial property as well. I'm not faulting them for it, I'm not trying to say they are rich, I'm trying to make people aware of what types of families are CURRENTLY covered by S-CHIP so we can honestly debate if the income ceiling should be raised.
Hmmmm, I really could use that new bass boat motor and the kids really would like a Nintendo Wii ... maybe I'll change my position.
I am so proud of you.
Love the FReeper eye for the Liberal Lie!
...and that they paid a small amount for the house only means that they have that much more equity and therefore wealth which they could access with a second mortgage or by downsizing their lives a bit in order to take care of priorities.
Why the Frosts, who do not trust the education of their children's minds to the government school system, want to trust the repair of their children's bodies to a government "health" system?
Not true. In most states, the rules of evidence prohibit the jury from learning about insurance coverage, and the mere mention of "insurance" will cause a mistrial.
In THIS case, it was a one-car accident, the mother lost control on the ice. So their only hope would have been to sue the insurance company, which wouldn’t probably have worked.
IIRC, Maryland is a "no-fault" state. Most no-fault laws require each driver to look to their own insurance policy for medical coverage. An injured passenger in a one-car accident would be entitled to first party medical benefits subject to the policy limitations. In Maryland, the minimum coverage is $20,000/$40,000, which means coverage up to $20,000 per injured person, not to exceed $40,000 per incident. But again, this is the minimum coverage and nothing prohibits a person from buying greater coverage, which I highly recommend, particularly if the person has assets to protect or doesn't have any health insurance. (For example, I have a $500,000/$1,000,000 automobile policy and an additional $1,000,000 of coverage under an umbrella homeowners policy.) So if the Frost family only had the minimum automobile inusrance coverage, then they have failed their family twice.
One other point, under many no-fault laws, an injured passenger suffers "serious bodily injury" can sue the driver for pain and suffering and economic loss.
I want to see just one snapshot of this family anchoring their sailboat in front of Philips Harborplace.
Coulter warned us about this 100 times with the 9/11 Shriek Sisters.
Some quick notes: LLCs have a lot of tax advantages over s corps. For instance, in an S corp, profits and losses are allocated pro-rata to shareholders, whereas in an LLC, if you elected to be taxed as a partnership, you can specially allocate profits and losses.
AS for the gift issue, a gift is a gift, not income. Taxes on gifts are paid by the maker of the gift, but there is an exemption of $11,000 per year for gifts, so mom can give $11,000 to each kid taxfree every year. Mom and Dad can give $22,000 to each kid, tax free. Now, if you want to give a bigger gift, you can, but it is subject to gift tax (paid by the giver). You can elect to use a portion of your unified credit (gift and estate tax) on the gift, but it reduces the credit for your estate taxes when you die. There. Did I thoroughly confuse everyone now?
A Pajama Patrol badge well earned.
And one step beyond that RayBob.
The grandparents can pay for the grandchildren’s education and that does not count against the $11,000 exemption for each child and grandchild. This counts as long as the check goes directly to the school.
You’re LLC analysis is also exceptional.
As a business owner, I paid for my family’s insurance with pre-tax dollars as part of the business expense. This is common place. If this guy did not do so, he is negligent. As negligent as a parent that does not ensure the kids are buckled up in the car in the first place.
-PJ
Nice work. Thanks.
YOU, Sir or Madam, ARE MY HERO!!!!! You COVERED ALL of the DETAILS which is what a REPORTER is SUPPOSED to DO!!! You did it!! WITH FACTS and EVIDENCE....You could teach a lesson to ALL other so-called reporters on how to do what you did!! THANK YOU...I wish ALL stories were covered this way!!!
Now if the IRS would just give Mr. Frost a call......
WHAT??? Frost’s LLC is not LEGAL???? IRS...call your office!!! Tax Evasion ALERT!!
Bravo, icwhatudo, excellent work.
My Hero
In one trial I was on the jury for, extensive questioning established the dollar figure without explicitly mentioning insurance. We all knew exactly what was being said.
I don’t know how to Cut and Paste...could you repeat that please!!!!
Who’s Rick Klein??
Ping
BUMP for incredible work.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.