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To: amchugh
Judgment. Good judgment.

Do you think good judgment requires a certified scientist? Not at all! Scientists are men with a certain set of wisdoms and tools to apply. They don't always apply them well -- witness the global warming "consensus".

Good judgment comes from learning, most learning comes from learning from mistakes, it seems. There's a higher quality of learning that takes much more effort that comes from learning from successes.

What successful man or woman counts porn as his or her success?

So many porn stars end up with workplace afflictions. Some enjoy monetary "success" and fame, sure. But what kind of success is that? It's like the success of the bling-laden drug dealer in the ghetto, or like a mafia don's. Infamy, not fame.

Judgment comes from learning morality -- the world is run according to rules spiritual and physical. But even just measuring by the physical, porn comes out a negative.

It is by freedom that full human development occurs -- and that is both individual and group freedoms, individual and social development. But growth comes only when the individual and the society internalize -- take into their being -- the models of behavior that are long-term successful, that encourage growth in other human strivings.

Porn does not enable growth, it hobbles the being, it hobbles the culture.

Governments do not have impulses -- they are made of people, the people, us. We, the People. That's a "We" in that -- not "me, me me". We act individually and those individual actions are summed, we also act in unison.

The better we act individually, the less we may need to act under the charter of a group, but even in the most sophisticated of cultures, where humans are fully responsible trustworthy and honest there still will be laws and regulations of social behavior.

113 posted on 08/15/2007 7:16:51 PM PDT by bvw
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To: bvw
Porn does not enable growth...

That my FRiend, is a DEMONSTRATABLY false assertion... let me assure you....

117 posted on 08/15/2007 7:30:54 PM PDT by SubGeniusX ($29.95 Guarantees Your Salvation!!! Or TRIPLE Your Money Back!!!)
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To: bvw
So many porn stars end up with workplace afflictions.

So do coal miners.

129 posted on 08/15/2007 7:50:51 PM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: bvw
Governments do not have impulses -- they are made of people, the people, us. We, the People. That's a "We" in that -- not "me, me me". We act individually and those individual actions are summed, we also act in unison.

I strongly disagee. We influence (and ultimately control) the government, but that doesn't mean "we" ARE the government.

151 posted on 08/15/2007 8:16:20 PM PDT by timm22 (Think critically)
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To: bvw

A good response. Here is a counter argument:


Now, imagine if a government existed, which, in its innate humility, developed policies fostering a positive environment for all the citizens and nurtured and cherished them in such a loving and parenting way, creating so much positive energy that they all were liberated from their minds and lived happily ever after. While liberals and some social conservatives may dream of such a utopia, it can never be. Inevitably, their grand plans are doomed to failure. Morality and self improvement must be chosen and recognized independently. A life without challenge, bumps, and bruises is not a life at all as no self knowledge can be gained. We are better for our struggles, and government must leave us free to struggle, provided we don’t struggle over the lives and property of others.

A true utopia is where every imaginable vice is available, legal, and plentiful, but yet, the people, and by ‘the people’ I mean each individual person, chooses, volitionally, without the coercion of government, not to partake in these deviations because they are enlightened as to the nature of themselves and are deeply reflective of their thoughts and actions. Sort of like the Communists, the laudable goals of these do-gooders are achievable, if only they would look over their shoulders, turn about face, and march back whence they came.

“[A] State which dwarfs its men, in order that they may be more docile instruments in its hands even for beneficial purposes, will find that with small men no great thing can really be accomplished; and that the perfection of machinery to which it has sacrificed everything, will in the end avail it nothing, for want of the vital power which, in order that the machine might work more smoothly, it has preferred to banish.” —John Stuart Mill, last paragraph in “On Liberty”


192 posted on 08/15/2007 10:18:57 PM PDT by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: bvw

You make good points, and I started to write a long post refuting some and disagreeing with others, but instead I will state what I feel but can’t prove about porn as succinctly as possible.

Porn appears to you to be a negative and damaging thing. To me it appears to be a thing that attracts negative and damaged individuals. I hope you can see why I think trying to address the latter condition with Gov’t policy and law is somewhat futile, and could erode first amendment rights with little to no benefit.


203 posted on 08/16/2007 1:20:05 AM PDT by amchugh (large and largely disgruntled)
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To: bvw

bvw wrote: “The better we act individually, the less we may need to act under the charter of a group, but even in the most sophisticated of cultures, where humans are fully responsible trustworthy and honest there still will be laws and regulations of social behavior.”

Well said! Social behavior must always be regulated to a certain extent. Everyone gives up some liberty in order to enjoy the benefits of society.


210 posted on 08/16/2007 3:39:32 AM PDT by CitizenUSA
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