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1 posted on 08/09/2007 2:58:46 PM PDT by Neville72
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To: Neville72

I guess this is another reason why Al Gore did not stick around to talk to Bjorn Lomborg at the House Hearing on Global Warming back in March. :)


2 posted on 08/09/2007 3:03:11 PM PDT by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: Neville72

Interestingly my latest Discover Magazine had an article that actually showed the other side of the global warming issue. I was stunned.
susie


3 posted on 08/09/2007 3:05:23 PM PDT by brytlea (amnesty--an act of clemency by an authority by which pardon is granted esp. to a group of individual)
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To: Neville72
Lessee, the 1930's saw the Dust Bowl drought, the likes of which haven't been seen since. And now it turns out that also was the warmest decade?

What's next, they'll tell me the Hockey Stick is wrong and it really was warm during the Medieval Warm Period when they were farming in Greenland???

7 posted on 08/09/2007 3:11:29 PM PDT by colorado tanker (I'm unmoderated - just ask Bill O'Reilly)
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To: Neville72

The only thing worse than normal junk science is demoKKKrat science.


8 posted on 08/09/2007 3:17:29 PM PDT by rickdylan
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To: Neville72
1) it appears to have been a simple programming glitch.

2) the details of how this was discovered are even more interesting...being a side effect of discovering that the US Historical Climate Network stations have been horribly corrupted by being all-too-often located in recent years adjacent to buildings, parking lots, air conditioning vents, and in wastewater treatment facilities...which isn't so bad for telling you if you'll need to go to the pool or turn up the AC today...but is awful to represent a control series to adjust other data by. In a counter-strike, some of the Anthropogenic Global Warming crowd attempted to show that setting the site adjacent to these heat sources didn't matter because Hansen and GISS (Goddard Institute of Space Science?) - NASA - were able to make adjustments to erase the effect. Upon examination, McIntyre - part of the pair that demonstrated the immense flaws in Mann's Hockeystick - began digging into the example, attempting to figure out what adjustments were made to the data series. What he discovered was that in Jan 2000, the series jumped from one set of adjusted data to another without being normalized, which had the effect of causing a spurious temperature rise for every year since 1999 for that site in MN. After McIntyre sent a note to the guys who do the GISS adjustments, they found the error was systemic. Worse yet, it appears that the data for the years since 1999 was used to adjust previous years data, and so a whole host of years are receiving adjustments.

3. The real issue is that there is little to no actual independent peer-review in the upper levels of the Climate Sciences field. GISS does not say exactly how they make their adjustments, and so they can't be reviewed. This is essentially what happened with the MBH98/99 hockeystick reports which while supposedly thousands of scientists did peer-review on them, it took 8 years before someone actually checked the math, and it was found the methods were useless. With this GISS data, the errors appear to be simple ones which likely were caused by true accident...but because they were not open and independently verified, we have years and years of work, with hundreds of citations, that are based upon a simply wrong set of adjusted data.

One of the basic steps to science is testing replicability. If the one putting out the report isn't releasing where he got his data, what the data is, what he did to adjust it, what his steps in analysis were, etc., then we have absolutely no business treating it as meaning anything. ...and btw, many of the guys doing this are chapter authors for the IPCC reports...which is how Mann got his graphs posted all over the TAR.

As I understand, GISS is not done with their adjustments, so it would be easy to cover this too much too soon...but there should have been something by now, and thus the author of this article is still correct.

12 posted on 08/09/2007 3:25:50 PM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Neville72

How can these numbers be jumping around? I would expect that when each new year goes into the list, it would bump the other years up or down one. But how can the relative rankings keep jumping all over the place?


15 posted on 08/09/2007 3:37:45 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle ("Above all, shake your bum at Burton.")
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To: Neville72
I read somewhere that the same climate change experienced on earth is also occurring on other planets.
28 posted on 08/09/2007 3:57:28 PM PDT by street_lawyer (Conservative Defender of the Faith)
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To: Neville72
Climate change is universal not merely earthly:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1720024.ece
30 posted on 08/09/2007 4:00:01 PM PDT by street_lawyer (Conservative Defender of the Faith)
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To: Neville72

I have no doubt the whole data set is skewed towards favoring the global warming theory. There is so much manipulation of the data and so much money at stake in proving global warming exists. If the ‘studies’ all of a sudden showed global warming is not an immediate dangers, billions and billions of dollars of research would dry up.


31 posted on 08/09/2007 4:01:11 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: Neville72
Simultaneous warming on Earth and Mars suggests that our planet's recent climate changes have a natural—and not a human-induced—cause, according to one scientist's controversial theory. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

 


 

32 posted on 08/09/2007 4:08:10 PM PDT by street_lawyer (Conservative Defender of the Faith)
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To: Neville72

NASA isn’t the main weather agency. They do some work in the field on contract.


35 posted on 08/09/2007 4:16:01 PM PDT by RightWhale (It's Brecht's donkey, not mine)
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To: Neville72

Referance ping to bash the Gaia earth worshipers with *


38 posted on 08/09/2007 4:19:34 PM PDT by Para-Ord.45
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To: Neville72

1934 makes the glo warmers look silly. Lying about 1998 was what the glo warmers were counting on to push their agenda....opps the turds lose again.


39 posted on 08/09/2007 4:24:10 PM PDT by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand;but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: Neville72
Gore's claim concerning warmest years in history pertains to data for the entire planet. The changes at GISS are only for American data.

A guy called Rush today to say that worldwide temps seemed to be on the upswing because after the collapse of the Soviet Union, they no longer monitored their climate data and their numbers were left off subsequent tallies of average temps worldwide. Russia, being so cold most of the time--their numbers were not available to balance out the rest of the world's temps, so it gave the impression that the planet was heating up during the '90s. I don't know if this info can be verified but it was an interesting point the guy made.

40 posted on 08/09/2007 4:25:31 PM PDT by rabidralph
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To: Neville72; SunkenCiv; neverdem; xcamel; B4Ranch; Molly Pitcher; sourcery; CedarDave; Badeye; ...
NASA Admits Error: 1934 Back to Warmest Year in U.S.

Quantifying the Hansen Y2K Error (Weblog Climate Audit Finds NASA GISS US Temp error--big one!)

1998 No Longer Hottest ear on Record

An Inconvenient Truth Squad

Did Media Or NASA Withhold Climate History Data Changes From The Public?

Similar threads today.

This, by the way, isn't the only thing in the pipe. If Climate Audit comes back up (I'm sure their server was flooded), look at the stuff with the IPCCs 4AR. Steve McIntyre was a reviewer for chapters in the IPCC. To get the writing to review, he had to go through an equivalent to Aurther Dent's efforts to see plans in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. McIntyre and McIntrick(sp?) and Pielke were all peer-reviewers, and when they posted issues, they got back responses that amounted to little more than "nu-uh!"

One particular thing that one of them pointed out was a Briffa 2006 study which the 4AR authors cited and included in a graph. The reason for the protests was that they included the part of the line where Briffa brought his data forward, but then clipped off the part where the data diverged heavily, going steeply down instead of up.

41 posted on 08/09/2007 4:25:57 PM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Neville72

43 posted on 08/09/2007 4:29:05 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Neville72

“Most importantly, according to the GISS, 1998 is no longer the warmest year in American history. That honor once again belongs to 1934.”

Let me see if I can get this? 1934 was the warmest year. Then the story changed and 1998 was the warmest year. Then the story changed again and 1934 returned to being the coldest year. Is that right?

If so, is this a plausible explanation? 1934 was the warmest year. The data was normalized/altered to make 1998 the warmest year. This may have been done due to an AGW agenda. This was found out by an outsider. The record has been set straight and now 1934 is back to being the warmest year. Is this the gist (or at least one possible gist) of what is going on?


44 posted on 08/09/2007 4:38:17 PM PDT by ChessExpert (Climate change for 4.5 billion years and counting)
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To: Neville72
Image hosted by Photobucket.com listen... warming, cooling, it was 50/50. so i took a shot!!!

45 posted on 08/09/2007 4:41:09 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist)
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To: Neville72
soon-to-be-Dr. Al Gore

What?

48 posted on 08/09/2007 5:08:58 PM PDT by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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To: Neville72; SunkenCiv
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/staff/jhansen.html

One of my research interests is radiative transfer in planetary atmospheres, especially interpreting remote sounding of the earth's atmosphere and surface from satellites. Such data, appropriately analyzed, may provide one of our most effective ways to monitor and study global change on the earth. The hardest part is trying to influence the nature of the measurements obtained, so that the key information can be obtained.

52 posted on 08/09/2007 5:57:04 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (Fair dinkum!)
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