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To: Savage Beast

One of the big differences between the US and Rome, which few people note, is that the US has NEVER had an empire - in the sense of colonies, possessions, etc. Rome had an empire, Spain had an empire, and England had an empire.

But the US had a few little tiny possessions, most of which we got rid of as soon as we could.

Our “empire” was mostly countries who wanted to follow us because they liked our example. They wanted to be considered a friend of the US because that meant that they, too, were in favor of personal liberty, the rule of law, and private property and enterprise.

I was just in Europe and they were all clucking their tongues and saying it was the “end of the US empire.” My question to them: What empire?

It was a voluntary empire, and if people have abandoned it, it is because they have abandoned the ideals, and this does not bode well for the world.


34 posted on 08/05/2007 9:57:35 AM PDT by livius
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To: livius

We are, if anything, a mercantile empire. We don’t usually care to try to run others peoples affairs, we just want to sell them stuff and buy their stuff.

A nation is having peace and prosperity? GREAT! Let the good times roll. Sell us your goods and services and may we interest you in ours?

A nation is having warfare and strife. NOT AS GREAT! But we can sell you some guns and ammo, let us know when things settle down and we can set up shop and invest.


48 posted on 08/05/2007 10:41:13 AM PDT by allmendream
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To: livius
The Philippines was a de facto colony due to racist sentiments among the American people at the time.

The Filipinos sought independence from the Spanish, and when the Americans drove the Spanish out (this was during the Spanish-American War), the Filipinos tried to drive out the Americans.

The United States did have a point that if the Philippines were given independence, other empires, chiefly the Japanese (already in Taiwan), the British (already in British Malaya), and the Germans (already in Micronesia), would probably try to take it over and not recognize the Philippines as an independent, sovereign country.

However, nor did the United States treat the Philippines as it had the many other territories it had before (such as the Louisiana Purchase or Mexican Cessation). People living in the Philippines were not immediately granted American citizenship, although at the time many American officials wanted the Philippines to remain part of the United States as long as the United States existed. Instead, emigration from the Philippines to the United States was greatly limited, and Filipinos were granted the status of American national--which wasn't full citizenship.

Eventually, the Philippines was given Commonwealth status and independence was to be given to the Philippines within ten years (1935-1945). This was less altruism than that the Philippines had earlier tried for statehood, and the American people weren't ready for a proportion of their population larger than that of those of African descent becoming 'little brown brethren.' Ostensibly, the Philippines distant was given for it not being given statehood--and yet there were those who wanted the islands to be under American control until the United States was no more.

It could be that the Philippines and Hawaii were the only American territories to try for American statehood and be rejected (Hawaii obviously eventually got through--after Alaska, which basically had to get a reasonably large enough population). And why was that? (rhetorical).

Ranting aside, the United States did have a de facto empire, but it was puny compared to the British Empire.

80 posted on 08/05/2007 1:37:55 PM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: livius
The Philippines was a de facto colony due to racist sentiments among the American people at the time.

The Filipinos sought independence from the Spanish, and when the Americans drove the Spanish out (this was during the Spanish-American War), the Filipinos tried to drive out the Americans.

The United States did have a point that if the Philippines were given independence, other empires, chiefly the Japanese (already in Taiwan), the British (already in British Malaya), and the Germans (already in Micronesia), would probably try to take it over and not recognize the Philippines as an independent, sovereign country.

However, nor did the United States treat the Philippines as it had the many other territories it had before (such as the Louisiana Purchase or Mexican Cessation). People living in the Philippines were not immediately granted American citizenship, although at the time many American officials wanted the Philippines to remain part of the United States as long as the United States existed. Instead, emigration from the Philippines to the United States was greatly limited, and Filipinos were granted the status of American national--which wasn't full citizenship.

Eventually, the Philippines was given Commonwealth status and independence was to be given to the Philippines within ten years (1935-1945). This was less altruism than that the Philippines had earlier tried for statehood, and the American people weren't ready for a proportion of their population larger than that of those of African descent becoming 'little brown brethren.' Ostensibly, the Philippines distant was given for it not being given statehood--and yet there were those who wanted the islands to be under American control until the United States was no more.

It could be that the Philippines and Hawaii were the only American territories to try for American statehood and be rejected (Hawaii obviously eventually got through--after Alaska, which basically had to get a reasonably large enough population). And why was that? (rhetorical).

Ranting aside, the United States did have a de facto empire, but it was puny compared to the British Empire.


81 posted on 08/05/2007 1:38:48 PM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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