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NRA, Democrats reach gun law deal
tampabay.com ^ | June 10, 2007 | Jonathan Weisman

Posted on 06/10/2007 7:39:59 AM PDT by holymoly

The gun lobby wrests some concessions as it agrees to back stronger background checks.

WASHINGTON - Senior Democrats have reached agreement with the National Rifle Association on what could be the first federal gun-control legislation since 1994, a measure to significantly strengthen the national system that checks the backgrounds of gun buyers.

The sensitive talks began in April, days after a mentally ill gunman killed 32 students and teachers at Virginia Tech University. The shooter, Seung Hui Cho, had been judicially ordered to submit to a psychiatric evaluation, which should have disqualified him from buying handguns. But the state of Virginia never forwarded that information to the federal National Instant Check System, and the massacre exposed a loophole in the 13-year-old background-check program.

Under the agreement, participating states would be given monetary enticements for the first time to keep the federal background database up to date, as well as penalties for failing to comply.

To sign on to the deal, the powerful gun lobby won significant concessions from Democratic negotiators in weeks of painstaking talks. Individuals with minor infractions in their pasts could petition their states to have their names removed from the federal database, and about 83, 000 military veterans, put into the system by the Department of Veterans Affairs in 2000 for alleged mental health reasons, would have a chance to clean their records.

The federal government would be permanently barred from charging gun buyers or sellers a fee for their background checks. In addition, faulty records such as duplicative names or expunged convictions would have to be scrubbed from the database.

"The NRA worked diligently with the concerns of gun owners and law enforcement in mind to make a ... system that's better for gun owners and better for law enforcement, " said House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman John Dingell, D-Mich., a former NRA board member, who led the talks.

Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., had been pushing similar legislation for years. But her reputation as a staunch opponent of the gun lobby - she came to Congress to promote gun control after her husband was gunned down in a massacre on the Long Island Rail Road - ruined any chance of a deal with the NRA.

Convenient deal

By contrast, this agreement is a marriage of convenience for both sides. Democratic leaders are eager to show that they can respond legislatively to the Virginia Tech rampage, a feat that GOP leaders would not muster after the 1999 shootings at Columbine High School in Colorado. Meanwhile, the NRA was motivated to show it would not stand in the way of a bill that would not harm law-abiding gun buyers. Even so, it drove a hard bargain to quiet its smaller but more vociferous rival, Gun Owners of America.

Chris W. Cox, the NRA's chief lobbyist, said Saturday that the organization will strongly support the legislation as written. "We've been on record for decades for keeping firearms out of the hands of the mentally adjudicated. It's not only good policy, it's good politics, " he said. But Cox warned that if the legislation becomes a "gun-control wish list" as it moves through Congress, the NRA will withdraw its support.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; nra
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To: elmer fudd
So these are the kinds of minor infractions that are already included in the federal database. If this new legislation allows people like my friend to get their rights back and keeps a few documented psychos, like Seung Hui Cho, from buying guns, then I'm for it.

In effect, you're betting your right to own and carry a weapon on that big 'IF'.

We can't ~allow~ this database type of infringement, period. - Such a power is, and always will be abused.
Bet on that.

41 posted on 06/10/2007 10:40:30 AM PDT by tpaine (" My most important function on the Supreme Court is to tell the majority to take a walk." -Scalia)
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To: holymoly
What a deal! A hundred thousand (or more) people will “have the opportunity” to go to court to clear their names so they will “have the chance” of passing a background check to get, or keep, a gun.

And NRA staunchly defends Mitt Romney for the Massachusetts Assault Weapons Ban- I mean, firearms reform bill that reduced the size of the carry permit to one that will fit your wallet.

Of course, once the legislation is passed and the courts and BATFE come up with “reasonable regulations” under which the opportunity to clear your name will be turned into legal process, NRA will be working toward their next compromise and will defend the last one.

42 posted on 06/10/2007 10:42:28 AM PDT by DBrow
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To: holymoly

The NRA compromises again?


43 posted on 06/10/2007 10:53:44 AM PDT by Old 300
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To: holymoly
As much as I'd love to sound off with NO GUN LAWS PERIOD! I am forced to be realistic and admit they are with us to stay. That being the case, this is a good deal especially for those 83,000 VETS turned over to the database with no legal recourse for being depressed and seeking help from the VA! Now there is a law in place to keep that from happening.

A lot of folks were kept in the database for merely having harsh words for an ex-wife. Think that's right? The old rules had a lot of wiggle room. This should tighten things a bit. I wish the NRA had fought for national reciprocity, too. But that would have queered the deal, I'll bet. As far as I'm concerned this kind of legislation should slow down the overall juggernaut agenda of the extremeists until we can get a more solid progun majority and President into place.

Yes I'm suspicious of any deal the RATs agree to that would tend to offer us anything as a "concession." So we'll trust for now....trust but verify. If they try to add more of their wish list, it'll be easy to scream "breach of trust" and fight it. Then it makes them devote more and more resources in an election year which raises the issue even higher into the public eye. West-by-God-Virginia went Republican for the first time in decades during the 2000 election on JUST this issue! That cost Gore the White House.

44 posted on 06/10/2007 11:14:41 AM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: holymoly
Mentally ill? So I guess if you ever feel blue and the doctor gives you some zoloft, you're on the database?

The NRA shouldn't even sit at the table with these idiots. But I lost faith in them when they backed Ron Paul's opponent in the last election when Ron Paul is the best gun rights legislator in the entire congress. They backed the dem against Paul.
45 posted on 06/10/2007 11:17:54 AM PDT by mysterio
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To: holymoly

The 1934, and 1968 gun control acts were also supported by the NRA.


46 posted on 06/10/2007 11:57:33 AM PDT by zeugma (MS Vista has detected your mouse has moved, Cancel or Allow?)
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To: Tabi Katz
If someone is deemed a greater-than-average threat to public safety, based on past actions........

Well frickin HECK!!

All of both houses of Congress fit that description....

47 posted on 06/10/2007 12:01:27 PM PDT by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: elmer fudd
If this new legislation allows people like my friend to get their rights back and keeps a few documented psychos, like Seung Hui Cho, from buying guns, then I'm for it.

Which goes right back to the FACT that once Hinkley Psycho finds out they can't buy a gun legally they will just find one illegally. It's beyond laughable that anyone would think a law will stop a criminal or a psycho from obtaining a weapon.

48 posted on 06/10/2007 12:07:51 PM PDT by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: BigTom85
A lot of people are going to be 'railroaded' into these government databases..
A lot of people already are being railroaded into these databases.

Like I said, if in the process of adding provisions for mental health background checks, we can establish due process protections for not only those who are hit by mental health checks, but for all the rest, too, I think it's a good deal.

It depends very much upon the specific technical details of the bill. But there are folks at the NRA who understand this stuff as well as anyone in the world.

Consider Thomas Lamar Bean - a gun dealer who got hit with a federal felony conviction because an employee put a box of ammo in his car after a gun show, and he crossed into Mexico without realizing its presence. He's no threat to anyone, but he's stuck with a lifetime firearms disability. Federal law establishes a process by which such a disability can be removed, but Congress has blocked it.

If, as a part of this compromise, this process was made active again, would it change your mind about the value of the compromise?

This could be, depending upon the details, a good bill.

49 posted on 06/10/2007 12:14:42 PM PDT by jdege
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To: EGPWS
Reference Oklahoma City, 911, or for all that matters, the Boston Strangler or Bundy.

If you're not particular about who gets killed, driving a car into a street fair at 70 MPH is pretty effective too. That just happened in the Washington D.C. area within the last couple weeks. Witnesses on the scene recognized the driver and observed that she appeared to be sucking on a crack pipe as she drove into the crowd. The death toll was close to 13 people.

50 posted on 06/10/2007 12:31:16 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: jdege
This could be, depending upon the details, a good bill.

It's a bad bill. The government has no constitutional authority to do this- 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed'. Well, if you ask me.. all of these databases and such are an infringement.

While it might sound like a 'good idea',,, that dfoes not mean thats it's a good or constitutional law. The constitution was written for a reason. However, over the past couple of decades, the constitution has been slowly eroding (mostly due to congress).
51 posted on 06/10/2007 12:34:46 PM PDT by BigTom85 (Proud Gun Owner and Member of NRA)
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To: tpaine
Catch 22. - Residents of Calif are felons if they try to opt out.

California has so many anti-gun laws that you can become a felon without even trying. Just buy a handgun magazine and appropriate ammo for the mag. Put just 1 round into the magazine and step onto a public sidewalk or street. Bingo! You are now a felon. The magazine is part of a gun, thus loading it makes puts you in possession of a "loaded gun". If you possess a loaded gun on a public street and you don't have that gun registered to you on a Form 4473, you are have committed a felony under California law.

I have a nice collection of guns...all relocated to my home in Idaho. I'm finished with California.

52 posted on 06/10/2007 12:36:53 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Hot Tabasco
The Democrats will find a way to make new gun control as a rider on a critical piece of fiscal legislation. It will be quietly stuffed inside thousands of pages that nobody will read until it is too late. They will pass it by unanimous consent without even a quorum in the room.
53 posted on 06/10/2007 12:40:46 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Myrddin
If you're not particular about who gets killed, driving a car into a street fair at 70 MPH is pretty effective too. That just happened in the Washington D.C. area within the last couple weeks. Witnesses on the scene recognized the driver and observed that she appeared to be sucking on a crack pipe as she drove into the crowd. The death toll was close to 13 people.

We need to understand these people, control their attitudes, and divvy out a single shot long barrel pistol to them so we can help them to control their destructive mindsets.

It's like methadone treatments, pay for their destructive attitudes and ease them off of their addiction. This way fewer people are at risk, because their mindful promotion of death and mayhem would be contained then.

Of course as to not make them feel so alone with their personal issues, restrict the rest of the public at the same time so they feel that they are a part of society.

My SUV will be taken away when I cold hands are pried from the steering wheel.

54 posted on 06/10/2007 12:46:52 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: holymoly
Oh don't worry the NRA has always loked out for us gun owners...

NOT !!!

Where was the NRA everytime new more restictive gun laws were passed in the past? They we either supporting them or nowhere to be found.

55 posted on 06/10/2007 12:48:12 PM PDT by ColdSteelTalon
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To: Myrddin
I'm finished with California.

But it never rains in California.

Are you sure you have made the right decision? /s

56 posted on 06/10/2007 12:49:39 PM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: ColdSteelTalon; basil; mombrown1
Ain't that the truth!!!! I haven't given the NRA a single dime in the last 7 years and won't ever again. I want "gun laws" rolled back not more added. The NRA is just like the "civil rights" organizations....if they did their jobs correctly they'd put themselves out of business and they can't give up those big salaries and big buildings!

I support true grassroots/no compromise organizations like Second Amendment Sisters, Second Amendment Foundation, JPFO and others!

57 posted on 06/10/2007 1:54:04 PM PDT by 2nd amendment mama ( www.2asisters.org ? Self defense is a basic human right!)
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To: holymoly
We who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. "IF the Democrats renege?" Good Lord, who can imagine a scenario wherein they do not?

I recall 1994 rather vividly - the NRA "worked with" legislators on that one as well. It was couched as "common-sense" gun control, "gun control we can live with." The next thing you know the kiddies in the Clinton war room decided to get partisan with it and slide the knife into the back by presenting it as their royal personages having "stood up to the NRA." And what do you know if BJ Billy didn't end up stating "I'm going to stretch this just as far as I can." Which he did.

The Democrats have NO credibility on this issue, and there is no more reason to trust them on it once they've gotten their way than there is to trust a rattlesnake not to bite. The members of the NRA - specifically the ILA within it - are so enamored of their Beltway sinecures that they are willing to compromise on anything just to be considered one of the boys. They should know better. They DO know better. I'm one Life member who's going to be telling them so.

58 posted on 06/10/2007 2:03:36 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: 2A_Martian

ping!


59 posted on 06/10/2007 2:18:23 PM PDT by basil (Support the Second Amendment--buy another gun today!)
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To: holymoly

So how would this gun deal stop the mad man from killing 30 people? A question no one will ask and no one will answer either.

Here is a hint ... if the guy was sane enough to shoot 30 people, don’t you think he was sane enough to steal a gun?

Democrats made simple, ... raise taxes, fund socialism and gun control, it’s all they ever know. Feel good crap.

So how are we doing on eliminating gun free killing zones? Teaching self defense?


60 posted on 06/10/2007 2:23:40 PM PDT by Tarpon
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