Posted on 06/05/2007 2:50:36 PM PDT by TexanSniper
It all started when Rev. Thomas Tobin was invited to attend a "Rudy for President" fundraiser for $1500.
In response the Catholic Bishop of Providence, R.I. (who's not even a Republican) wrote "My RSVP to Rudy Giuliani," which indicates a certain level of dissatifaction with the former Mayor's stance on abortion:
Rudy’s explanation is a classic expression of the position on abortion we’ve heard from weak-kneed politicians so frequently in recent years:
“I’m personally opposed to but don’t want to impose my views on other people.” The incongruity of that position has been exposed many times now. As I’ve asked previously, would we let any politician get away with the same pathetic cop-out on other issues: “I’m personally opposed to . . . racial discrimination, sexual abuse, prostitution, drug abuse, polygamy, incest . . . but don’t want to impose my beliefs on others?”
Why is it that when I hear someone explaining this position, I think of the sad figure of Pontius Pilate in the Gospels, who personally found no guilt in Jesus, but for fear of the crowd, washed his hands of the whole affair and handed Jesus over to be crucified. I can just hear Pilate saying, “You know, I’m personally opposed to crucifixion but I don’t want to impose my belief on others.”
Interestingly, he asks the question I think all of us want answered: Why does Rudy "hate abortion" and believe it's morally wrong?
I'll bet this is the last "Rudy for President" function Bishop Tobin receives. Read the whole thing.
That may be true or not, but life issues are independent of creed. Ramesh Ponnuru, in "The Party of Death," makes an excellent non-religious analysis of all the contemporary political issues regarding human life.
Also, a Catholic bishop has an obligation to instruct the Catholic faithful (or the Catholic unfaithful) which he doesn't have toward Mormons.
I’m a conservative RC and I don’t have a problem with it.
Romney is prolife. He has recognized his mistake.
Bishop blasts Rudy ping.
Tedso doesn't have enough class for the big guy's job ~ which really was a job so nasty no Roman would do it (so they got a Greek immigrant).
The analogy is incorrect.
Pontius Pilate was not known to be a baby-killer.
But King Herod was.
The analogy is incorrect.
Pontius Pilate was not known to be a baby-killer.
But King Herod was.
Read the article before you start shooting from the hip.
“I’m a conservative RC and I don’t have a problem with it.”
I will have to take your word on that because I’m just not that well acquainted with 21th century Roman Catholic thought (I’m more familiar with what was in vogue just before Luther nailed his stuff on the church door).
I’m a real Southern Baptist (not a Newt, Jimmy, or Bill) and I consider mormons to be more dangerous (an insidious danger like chocolate covered poison) to Christianity than the inquisition was against the reformation. BTW - I don’t hold present day Roman Catholics responsible for what their forebearers did during the inquisition - men often let their zeal get ahead of what God would approve. As was the case with Southern Baptists for so long on racial issues, especially until the latter part of the 20th century.
Hey, thanks a bunch, Mr. Auto-Preview Click Again to Post Your Comment!! I posted twice no thanks to you!
Interesting. I’m not acquainted at all with Southern Baptist thought past or present but I did stumble upon this quote a while back:
“Southern Baptists understand they are voting for a Commander in Chief, not a Theologian in Chief,” says Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s public-policy arm. “But he’s gotta close the deal. Only Romney can make voters comfortable with his Mormonism. Others cannot do it for him.”
any thoughts?
“any thoughts?”
Only that I’m not sure what Richard Land meant by that. I don’t think you will find any “real” Southern Baptist vote for a mormon unless there was no viable alternative. For instance, if it was Rudy verses Romeny only, then they might vote for Romney. However, with Thompson entering the race, there is a much more palatible choice. I think many in the SBC from the OK, AR, MO, TX area would be inclined to vote for Huckabee, but most realize he can’t win in a general election. I predict Thompson will get the lion’s share of the SBC faithful’s (the ones that actually attend church weekly in a conservative SBC congregation - oh yes we have liberals too) vote in a primary.
The article is from Evangelicals for Mitt. Of course this was Mitt on the issue in question.
“As governor of the commonwealth, I will protect a woman’s right to choose under the laws of the country and the commonwealth. That’s the same position I’ve had for many years.””
Now he has switched tones. The question is was he lying to get help get himself elected in Massachusetts or is he lying now to get himself elected President?
I am not a Christian, so I will say this: Its a shame Rudy’s mom didn’t believe in abortion as much as he does...
One followup response. It is very difficult to really predict how even conservative Southern Baptists will vote.
There’s an old, but true, joke about if you have a topic discussion group composed of 5 Southern Baptists, there will be 6 opinions expressed.
I think he wasn’t lying. He just recognized that he was wrong and changed his mind.
You know why Irish Catholics are the way they are? Inferiority complex with regard to their faith. Because of a relative lack of Catholic intellectualism in Ireland (off the top of my head I can only think of those who left their faith: Liam O'Flaherty, James Joyce, Francis Hackett, Sean O'Faolain... compared to the Catholic Intellectualism of England for example). Or take for example the IRA; a leftist socialist organization the nature of which most Irish Americans are anywhere of.
Don't get me wrong, most Irish immigrants had a great zeal for their faith, but there was nevertheless a despondency and cultural timidity which resulted in their need to prove the Protestants wrong when challenged on their loyalty to their adopted country as opposed to the Pope.
While helping them to assimilate into what was perceived to be the American system, this compromise of placing their Catholicism in subordination to their Americanism has been the ruin of the Catholic culture of the Irish American community. Instead of trying to Baptize America, they tried to Americanize Catholicism.
Italian Americans have had a similar problem, but to a lesser degree, and stemming mostly from the cultural anti-clericalism of the old country.
Well, Rudy Giuliani was liberal enough to be elected mayor of New York City. What does that tell us?
Anyone to the right of Hillary is called a “conservative” these days.
As for whether Mitt can win votes in the South, I too have my reservations. However, give Mitt a chance to do some campaigning in the South and we'll see whose ideas get the most traction. In the end, people vote based on ideas, personality, and experience -- not on religion. Mitt has the vision, the ideas, and the organization to get the job done.
The Catholic Church doesn’t recognize Mormon baptism, but it does have a good relationship with the Mormon Church.
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