A Hot-Selling Weapon, an Inviting Target (fairly neutral article on AR-15 type rifles from the NYT)

New York Times ^ | 3 June 2007 | Andrew Park

[RKV]

LAST February, Jim Zumbo, a burly, 66-year-old outdoors writer, got a phone call at his home near Cody, Wyo., from the rock star — and outspoken Second Amendment champion — Ted Nugent. “You messed up, man,” Mr. Zumbo says Mr. Nugent told him. “Big time.”

Leland A. Nichols, left, an executive at Smith & Wesson in Springfield, Mass., and John Kapusta, an engineering manager, with an M&P 15 rifle. Such rifles have been crucial to the company’s turnaround plans.

Two days earlier, Mr. Zumbo, a leading hunting journalist, outraged Mr. Nugent and many other gun owners when he suggested in a blog post that increasingly popular semiautomatic guns known as “black rifles” be banned from hunting. Mr. Zumbo, stunned that hunters were using the rifles for sport, also suggested giving the guns, prized for their matte black metal finishes, molded plastic parts and combat-ready looks, a new name: “terrorist rifles.”

Gun enthusiasts’ backlash against Mr. Zumbo was swift. He parted company with his employer, Outdoor Life magazine. Mr. Zumbo says on his Web site that he was “terminated”; the magazine says that it and Mr. Zumbo agreed that he would resign.

But a week after hearing from Mr. Nugent, who has a devoted following among gun owners, Mr. Zumbo visited him in Waco, Tex., to make amends. For his part, Mr. Nugent was prepared to give Mr. Zumbo a lesson on the utility and ubiquity of black rifles.

...

“It’s highly unlikely that any legislation to move an assault weapons ban is going to happen,” says Kristen Rand, legislative director at the Violence Policy Center, a gun-control lobbying group. “That’s the sad reality on the Hill right now.”

ONLY IF WE KEEP THE POLITICIANS FEET TO THE FIRE BOYS

[VOA]

I do wonder why this found its way into print in the NYT.

I agree that the NYT may have some negative hidden agenda with
the article.

At the same time, I suspect a few left-leaning folks have learned
that any particular weapon in the hands of an Islamic-wackjob
is BAD...and the same weapon in the hands of US Military personnel
and even the Average Joe/Josephine Citizen of The USA is usually
a good or neutral thing.

Just don't expect many of them to say that in public.
Some left-leaning folks do understand the term:
"The Arsenal of Democracy".

[VR-21]

I never took any offence. It’s just banter, and as American shooters we’re brothers, not adversaries. I look forward to your input in the future, and never let my nonsense bother you. The 60’s were rather uh...kind to me, you see.

[rickdylan]

I’d be all for it. There’s still the question of whether you want gas pushing directly on a bolt carrier or whether you want a pisten between the two and a lot of people prefer having the piston.

[Hardastarboard]

I had heard that they are using the M14 more, even though it’s a larger rifle, just for the stopping power at close ranges. Any idea if that’s true?

[RKV]

I think that’s an option now (certainly for 5.56 based actions, cause it was on the cover of Shotgun News). That said here’s a quote from the Armalite folks “Comparison tests of the Stoner (gas) and the M-14 (piston) before Desert Storm confirmed the superiority of the Stoner system in sand and dust tests. “

[WorkingClassFilth]

He says his time at Mr. Nugent’s ranch reminded him that gun owners have to reject banning any firearm, lest it open the door to banning them all. He also says that, like it or not, black rifles are now mainstream. “Having met the people who shoot these things, they were regular folks; they weren’t sinister people who were bent on causing harm, they weren’t hostile people,” he says. “They were interested in the guns because they were fun to shoot.”

CYA...BS.

[Fee]

DITTO. Poor man’s deer rifle. Rugged and battle tested.

[rickdylan]

I'd suspect you must have read something the wrong way. I don't see how dust or sand could affect the two that much differently. The difference is cleaning, and how critical that was and how frequently the two needed to be cleaned and how easy it was to clean the two in remote conditions. The piston system is generally much easier to clean since you don't get all that gas and powder residue mixed in with the oil and grease of the bolt and bolt carrier.

[RKV]

Pretty sure I have not. Which is why I made sure that you knew that I got that info from Armalite, who was detailing who knows what tests.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

Is something wrong with me or was that NY Times article fairly reported and written? I may have to get my conservative spectacles changed.

One other thing that has always bugged me. Has anyone ever noticed how there are so many gun companies in these gun grabbing states? Such as here, the companies talked about were in Illinois and Conneticut. And there are a lot more in both of those states. I don’t get it gun companies. Move where the citizens respect and appreciate the product you provide them.

As a former Marine, I have fired the M-16, M-14 and the AK-47. Personally, I prefer a Marlin repeater. But that’s just me. I will second that an M-16 (or AR-15) is very accurate and little recoil. However, these type of weapons do have a lot of carbon buildup and require constant care after firing.

[MileHi]

Ah, Americas Rifle.

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/long_guns/americanar_031807/index.html

Well, opinions vary. I prefere .30 bullets. But I don’t have an M-14 yet(SOCOM). My AR works great for me with good mags. Hits good at 300 yds with the factory peeps. Any way, looks like the black rifle is here to stay.

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/long_guns/aervicer_033007/

[MileHi]

See post 71 if you wish.

[Renegade]

Nice weapon. Picked up a Remington 570 .17 Mag rifle also (for plinking ) . A laser at 100 yds .

[Squantos]

GUN PORN !?!?!?!?!

Oh well close enough !

Any party that touches Gun Control of any type loses. I think they know that on both sides of the aisle. Rats get elected we WILL have a rehash of the AWB crap. Count on that. Rudy the Rino gets in we will have it as well......

[mad_as_he$$]

It is true. Most Army combat brigades now have a “Unit Marksman” assigned to every platoon. They carry M-14’s. We even went to some other countries who had good supply and traded them M-4’s and M-16’s to get enough M-14’s back. They act in a sniper type role but closer in than traditional snipers in Iraq. There is a video on youtube (can’t find the index - where some guys are pinned down and you hear the Sgt get on the radio and ask “god you there?” the response is “wait one.”, then you hear the unmistakable sound of an M14 and three scum bags drop out of windows. I just love that $hit.

[MileHi]

GUN PORN !?!?!?!?!

Well, a reply to this thread. How about this, I have been looking at the .375. But in the current climate, maybe the Rock River AR10 or the SOCOM. The AR10 is too heavy, the SOCOM is pretty pricey. The RR version seems to be about the same weight as the SOCOM.

Still like the .375, want to play with it. I gave up on the P-17, it is being refurbished in the current 300 H&H. But I am looking at this

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_798_specs.asp

Decisions, decisions.....

[FredHunter08]

“I never took any offence. “

Good, ‘cause I was trying to be funny. ;)

[Squantos]

798 is just a mauser 98 with remingtons stamp on it...... good rig.

Look at a standard M1A Springfield. That SOCOM is a fun trick pony ( I have one) but the working gun for your and my arena is the M1A IMHO.........given a choice when the need arises I would pick the M1A vs the SOCOM from my safe.

[cpdiii]

“The fact is, in many situations, a good bolt gun is pretty damn dangerous. That’s why the hell we still use them in the military”

YEP! Last week with a SPRINGFIELD 1903 I MADE A GROUP OF ABOUT 5 INCHES WITH OPEN SIGHTS AT TWO HUNDRED YARDS. THE BARREL WAS MADE IN 1939 AND IS A TWO GROOVE BARREL. HOWEVER, THE BARREL IS NEW AS IT HAS BEEN IN STORAGE AND WAS RECENTLY PUT ON THE RIFLE. I MADE ONE GROUP OF 2 INCHES BUT THAT WAS A FLUKE. I WAS JUST LUCKY ON THAT ONE. THE 1903 IS STANDARD WITH THE EXCEPTION OF MATCH SIGHTS ON IT.

I LIKE MY BOLT GUNS BUT MY FAVORITE RIFLE IS THE GARAND. IT DOES NOT GET ANY BETTER THAN THE GARAND. THE GARAND IS ENGINEERING ELEGANCE. MY WIFE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND IT WHEN I EXPLAIN THAT THE GARAND RIFLE IS A THING OF BEAUTY.

PS
OLD MEN WITH OLD GUNS ARE DANGEROUS.

[MileHi]

798 is just a mauser 98 with remingtons stamp on it...... good rig.

Yea, I think so.

I have some funds and until recently was going for something like that, just for fun. But now I think a .30 battle rifle is a better choice. I like the SA rifles, never shot one. I think a rail or some sort of versatile sight system is in order.

What are the factory sights, notch?