Posted on 05/29/2007 3:13:05 PM PDT by SUSSA
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Golly, I hope not. Did folks read my entire post?
If Rudy is mentioned in a post, I guess it must have
the obligatory: "Anybody but Rudy" suffix.
Remember the Seinfeld episode where Kramer was in
a gay race. All statements had to be followed by:
"Not that there's anything wrong with being gay"
Well the Libertarians and Constitution Party are the most frequently discussed, they both propose a immediate withdrawl. Paul would likely run for one or both of them, but if not, he'd defund which is as immediate as it gets. I presume you're not thinking about Michael Bloomberg. Do you think a magic candidate is going to fall from the sky next spring?
First of all, when Fred Thompson officially enters (He is filing to form an exploratory committee on June 1, this Friday) all your arguments are moot. Giuliani will NOT be the nominee, and a need for a third party will be unnecessary.
If for some strange unforeseen circumstance Fred Thompson does not stop Giuliani, a new third party might just emerge ala Perot to stop the GOP abortionist. If that means turning the country over to the Dems, that is the fault of the GOP, isn’t it?
The ones who died aren’t around anymore. A guy is not automatically a hero just because he’s a firefighter.
Nor does he necesarily have good political judgment, nor does he necessarily look beyond his selfish, parochial interests.
Union activism is often highly unrepresentative of the members’ views. I’m not attacking the general membership of this union. I’m attacking those leaders and activists in the union who will be trashing Rudy for trivial and mean-spirited reasons. Don’t swallow the Democratic line that the bosses of the unions (and those who follow their line) are the same as the general membership, or that the members are the same as their leaders.
I've noted that before. And he'll clearly draw from Giuliani voters. Which is an excellent reason not to proudly drive voters away. That only tends to reinforce their convictions.
If for some strange unforeseen circumstance Fred Thompson does not stop Giuliani, a new third party might just emerge ala Perot to stop the GOP abortionist. If that means turning the country over to the Dems, that is the fault of the GOP, isn’t it? I seriously doubt that will happen post primaries. If Hillary wins, it will be because she got more votes. That's not necessarily the GOPs fault, people may simply feel she's better on the issues. People who recognize a difference will vote, other's may see no difference and not vote. That decision is on them, not the GOP. In the undesired event that it's Hillary vs Giuliani, there will be a recognizable difference between the parties.
Firefighters Blast Giuliani Over 9/11There are also a slew of articles keyworded under UFA showing their support of Bush, and a bunch more under NYFD and FDNY, also showing that they are the good guys.
FirefightingNews.com ^ | March 9, 2007 | Deseret NewsGiuliani will miss firefighters event
Deseret News ^ | Wednesday, March 14, 2007 | Richard Perez-Pena, New York Times News Service
To read about the radio thing specifically, the NYT article series or the 9/11 report are your best bet. Or just try googling. There is a mound of information.
And a guy is not automatically a hero just because he happened to be the sitting mayor during the attack. Especially just because he did his job as he was supposed to do.
That is quite arguable.
Good point. I'll file the "scum" comment in with the "if you don't vote for Rudy, you're voting for Hillary" mantra. :-)
You actually make an interesting point. While Obama appears to have fallen from the sky, in fact he was actively campaigning for other Dems during the 2004 campaign, being able to take time off from his Illinois run. I remember a number of runs to Wisconsin. He built up support within the party for over two years, then "fell from the sky".
Giuliani did the same thing. I can remember people making fun of his campaigning for Republican candidates last year. Building support within the party, and clearly he "fell from the sky" from the perspective of many Republicans.
There's no one like that out there.
It’s a fair point. I’m not saying Rudy was necessarily a great leader on 9-11 or later. I don’t know enough to say. But an overblown reputation wouldn’t be enough to justify dogging the man’s appearances and trashing him as a bad leader. I’m convinced one of two things, is the case, maybe both: Either these union bosses have a personal grudge against Rudy that they aren’t telling us about, or they’re focusing on issues that aren’t that significant for a national campaign and therefore aren’t worth hearing about, or they’ve been bought off by Hillary or other Rats and are doing their dirty work.
That is why I am excited about Fred, he has name recognition and he is a conservative. No doubt Fred is not conservative enough for some on this forum, but I think he is our best shot at winning.
Fair enough. I just get frustrated at posts that appear to pose an inevitable “it’s either Giuliani or Hillary” choice. When we complain about a GOP candidate during the general election, we’re told that the time to complain is during the primaries. But now, during the primaries, we’re told that posts illustrating the truth of Giuliani’s authoritarian record are actually supporting Hillary. I see it differently — I don’t fault Giuliani supporters for assessing the choices and making their own decisions, but I do believe a Giuliani nomination is our surest path to a Clinton or Obama presidency. Ugh.
The grudge the union leaders have against Rudy Giuliani are likely from his tight fiscal policies regarding salaries and benefits to the firefighters. He has many enemies in NYC. Not everyone buys into the “hero” status
Agreed.
#1. I didn’t use the word hero, but if I do, I’ll put it beside a 9/11 firefighter’s name before I would Giuliani’s
#2. Read the thread. Those same UNIONS supported Giuliani for 8 years and Bush for the same. That was their ACTIVISM.
#3. I’m not swallowing the Dem line. But I’m also not swallowing the GOP line that any liberal Republican is immune from criticism just because it comes from a union member or a democrat. I look at the issues, research them carefully, and acknowledge TRUTH.
#4. I do not consider basic failures to prepare for a NY emergency, and the subsequent loss of life, “trivial,” nor do I think it is mean-spirited when these same criticisms have been recorded for more than five years now.
#5. Please don’t insult my intelligence again.
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