Christians and atheists start a calmer dialogue

Christian Science Monitor ^ | 05/13/07 | Jane Lampman

[joseph20]

We've been taking measurements beyond what we can see with our eyes and touch with our hands for years. Telescopes, microscopes, gas chromatography, linear accelerators, et cetera. The list goes on and on. We surpassed simple measurements centuries ago. So what is this taboo you are talking about?

[LeGrande]

Please don't bring up 'santa', 'the easter bunny', 'Pegasus', or any other mythos in response, thanx.

Am I missing a sarcasm tag?

[kinoxi]

Yeah, sorry /s

:)

[LeGrande]

Whew, I was beginning to wonder for a while. I have recently been doing battle with religious fundamentalists and their lack of logical reasoning ability is daunting.

I have enjoyed many of your postings in the more technical areas ^^

[redhead]

""It's Christian militancy that has evoked a backlash of atheist militancy," says Michael Bleiweiss, a physicist and atheist from Methuen, Mass."

I think I'd like to see some of the provable instances and examples of "Christian Militancy." Anybody know where to look?

[Chaguito]

Hoo, boy...That’s got to be the biggest begged question I’ve ever tried to get my brain around.

[Lexinom]

You're a thinker, as well as a pleasantly witty fellow.

The Congregational churches, assuming that is a response to my comment about New England Puritanism, gradually drifted apart from their Puritan/Calvinist roots and from each other. By its very definition Congregationalism (in contrast to Presbyterianism) is, simplistically speaking, rule by the congregation. They are still around, but not particularly influential and often theologically liberal.

Puritan theology lives on in America in more conservative Presbyterian groups and is closely paralleled by Dutch Calvinism.

Regarding your other comment, it is the Holy Spirit's job to change hearts and draw people to God, not mine. If someone asks about my faith I joyfully share it, but foist it on no one unsolicited. Naturally, as a Christian I do want to see the principles of God's Ten Commandments (law) prevail in human civil law as I believe (and even you and many skeptics appear to believe!) that this is the best way toward a civilized and prosperous society - which the believer would attribute to divine blessing.

[Earthdweller]

I'm talking about the spiritual and metaphysical..it's still considered a joke in science even though there was a push in the seventies to consider it. This is most definitely a blindside.

Ask yourself why man can not let this part of existence die? There is something to it that science will not and can not address. Too many unanswered questions.

[kinoxi]

Why are you doing battle with religious fundamentalists?

[Lexinom]

Fundamental axioms necessary for science are not themselves subject to scientific inquiry. This is the rubicon beyond which science becomes philosophy. Thus, all worldviews are fundamentally based on faith - not just the overtly "relgious" ones.

Distilled even further, every single human being without exception, from the young, to the old, to the senile, to the genius, to the insane, to the imbecile, is religious.

[Earthdweller]

Dare I say Amen..

[kinoxi]

Fundamental axioms necessary for science are not themselves subject to scientific inquiry. This is the rubicon beyond which science becomes philosophy.

This is the mind set that created the middle ages.

[Earthdweller]

Are we to remove middle age thought because it is wrong or just because it is old?

[joseph20]

Ask yourself why man can not let this part of existence die? There is something to it that science will not and can not address.

I understand your point. But couldn't it just as well be that what you refer to as "this part of existence" is simply an unintended by-product that came along during the course of nature?

Why do you assume that there is any meaning behind the fact that we are aware of our own existence and are able to question our place in the universe?

[kinoxi]

We should learn from it. In my opinion.

[Earthdweller]

"But couldn't it just as well be that what you refer to as "this part of existence" is simply an unintended by-product that came along during the course of nature?"

Trying to understand this. To make light of it...do you mean like the by-product of feeling a bowel movement before it comes? LOL. Bear with me. LOL.

Ok..I know you are serious and I am not right now. My apologies.

"Why do you assume that there is any meaning behind the fact that we are aware of our own existence and are able to question our place in the universe?"

I question everything and I admit to trying to follow logic when there is no logic in some cases.

[Earthdweller]

What did we learn from it?

[kinoxi]

The fact that you and I can communicate right now proves we’ve learned quite a bit.

[Earthdweller]

:) Civilization might survive.

[laotzu]

I meet religious folks and it is like they are from a different planet

Pardon my intrusion.

I have met more than a few of those people myself.

Anywhere/everywhere you go, which ever group of people you encounter, there are weirdos, creeps, criminals, and degenerates. They are neither exclusive to, or excluded from any walk of life. To find them in religious circles as well is predictable, and unremarkable.

Of course, there are honest, honorable, and responsible people everywhere as well.

Regardless of potential reward in the hereafter; we all have a responsibility to be decent, caring, and honorable people. It is in our nature, religious & secularist alike, to adopt a personal set of values and morals.....principles, if you will.

Some...many live by a set of principles that constantly, and conveniently change. "Situational ethics" is practiced, and advocated by most secularists.

Others place a far more earnest, and sincere intent at being decent people and good neighbors. They accept a set of principles from a higher(and wiser) authority that never change.

In doing so, Christians miss out on the obvious perks that an arbitrary, personalized, and ever flexible morality code offers.

It is not that they choose between harder & easier, popular & ridiculed, or admired & insulted. To do what is right, because its the right thing to do.

I find that admirable, regardless of the existance of God.