God Is Not a Socialist or a Liberal!

Movieguide® ^ | April 27, 2007 | Dr. Tom Snyder

[Jorge]

Either support this implied accusation of hypocrisy. Or don't make it.

Is this really necessary?

You're the one who declared we must;
"Trust in God. Not in Government."

And I pointed out that to say this in response in this debate is HYPOCRITICAL unless you have refused unemployment and any other Govt service when YOU have been in need.

You should just be a holy roller and trust God. That's all.

[Jorge]

"Well it doesn't make sense. It seems so disingenuous."

It certainly does make sense. And it is hardly disingenuous.

It IS ABSOLUTELY disingenuous... AND phoney.

The idea that person who is really concerned about helping the poor, and is willing to make personal sacrifices to do so would be UPSET that at Govt agencies like welfare, food stamps etc is absurd.

[TASMANIANRED]

You are arguing from idealism which is the antithesis of reality.

In reality Johnson’s Great Society and the War on Poverty have done more to increase poverty, break the backbone of the family, create a permanent underclass that any action in history short of the Fall of Rome.

All the wailing and crying about incarceration rates of young black men can be placed right at the WOP’s feet.

God created the family with Mom, Dad and children to be at the center of his first covenant.

WOP made it Mom, many transient sperm donors and a bunch of half siblings and Government.

A society is only as strong as it’s families and the government has done everything fiendishly possible to undermine both the stability and the authority of the family.

Direct transfers of money to individuals with government acting as Robin Hood is the least efficient means to deal with poverty.

Look at the difference between the citizens after the Great Chicago fire and the Katrina in NO.

It’s the difference between free men and women and slaves...

[Jorge]

Individual Christian families are better at being generous then huge government bureaucracies. We use the money more effectively. We help the needy get on their feet...while the government just tends to build unhealthy dependencies.

Well when you get old and need Social Security, be sure to return your Govt check each month and just tell "Christian families" that you are their financial burden from now on.

I am willing to bet you don't practice what you preach.

[AndyTheBear]

And I pointed out that to say this in response in this debate is HYPOCRITICAL unless you have refused unemployment and any other Govt service when YOU have been in need.

Which is clearly a false accusation as I already demonstrated.

False accusations against your neighbor may be against the the 9th commandment, but it does indeed seem to be a stable used by liberals to shut down debate.

If I force you to buy a certain car from a certain car dealer whether you want to or not. And if you then object, I guess I can call you a hypocrite if you decide to drive the car you were forced to buy?

Ofcoarse I won't because I'm not a liberal.

[Jorge]

You are arguing from idealism which is the antithesis of reality.

Nonsense. According to you we should just be able to cut the poor, the elderly and disabled off of all Govt assistance and everything will be great.

That is absolutely nuts. You're the one out of touch with reality.

What you advocate WILL NEVER become a reality in our world.

[dan1123]

The idea that person who is really concerned about helping the poor, and is willing to make personal sacrifices to do so would be UPSET that at Govt agencies like welfare, food stamps etc is absurd.

I can see you can't tell the difference between charity and stealing by gov't proxy.

[Jorge]

"And I pointed out that to say this in response in this debate is HYPOCRITICAL unless you have refused unemployment and any other Govt service when YOU have been in need."

Which is clearly a false accusation as I already demonstrated.

False accusation? What are you talking about? How on earth could you "demonstrate" ANYTHING in response to this?

What, did you post your financial and tax statements?

You're not making any sense.

False accusations against your neighbor may be against the the 9th commandment, but it does indeed seem to be a stable used by liberals to shut down debate.

ROFL! This is beyond funny.

You're not presenting any "debate" to shut down.

[Jorge]

I can see you can't tell the difference between charity and stealing by gov't proxy.

Right. It's "stealing".

Call 911. Better yet pull a David Koresh and challenge the Feds to a standoff.

I can hardly believe the extremist nonsense some people post on these boards. Grow up already.

[TASMANIANRED]

You sure read a lot into what I said.

I never suggested one word about the elderly or disabled. You made that part up.

Poverty is not exclusively but is predominantly self inflicted...

It can to a very large degree be mitigated by finishing high school, no kids until out of high school and married, staying married .

You get the behavior that you pay for. With Johnson’s Great Society government payed for...read that rewarded....teen pregnancy, multi generational teen pregnancy...many many illegitimate children.

When kids have kids the off spring don’t have a chance...teen agers have nothing to give to children.

They aren’t educated so they don’t value education.

They haven’t had a stable family so they don’t provide a stable family.

They have no values so they teach no values.

There were always gangs of one variety or another but it was relatively limited until the Great Society...with the sheer volume of fatherless children the gangsta culture emerged.

“The poor will always be with you”...not my words.

The only thing the government has done is to re institute slavery... .

One group is owned by the state and the other group is profoundly abused wards of the state.

[Jorge]

You sure read a lot into what I said. I never suggested one word about the elderly or disabled. You made that part up.

It's the logical conclusion of what you said.

If not, then we are in agreement and I don't see why you are arguing with me in the first place.

[Jorge]

“The poor will always be with you”...not my words.

The words of Christ. Aren't you clever.

The same Jesus that said "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" when it came to taxes.

The same Jesus who IS GOD who clearly said those who turn away from helping the poor will have no help either when they are in need.

[AndyTheBear]

I am willing to bet you don't practice what you preach.

I am hardly guiltless or without blame. And although I promote trying to live by God's standard, I often fail. But ironically, in this particular issue you just happen to be very wrong.

The Lord has financially blessed us recently. We have had the chance to give generously, and have done so. And I dare say we gave to causes which were not designed to get votes, but rather to help in the most effective, loving way possible. Nor did we require anyone who was unwilling to chip in.

[AndyTheBear]

You're not presenting any "debate" to shut down.

Fine. I demand all your money NOW! I will give it to charity for you.

Please send all your bank information by private mail to facilitate.

Or do you refuse to practice what you preach?

[Jorge]

The Lord has financially blessed us recently. We have had the chance to give generously, and have done so.

That is commendable. We need more people like you in this world.

[dan1123]

If we are truly a caring charitable people, and our Govt is of the people and for the people, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with Govt aid for the poor and elderly.

But that is not the case. Maybe at first, a small number of people get helped and the majority gladly pay, but the dole grows ever higher, and soon the majority in gerrymandered districts are on the dole. It is then the poor who vote themselves more money for things like drugs, alcohol, and cable television. And the politicians cater to them by offering them more to get re-elected.

"We" then aren't "caring charitable people", but greedy thieves voting to take more from the remaining minority who still work.

Just look at how scared politicians are about fixing a failing social security system.

[AndyTheBear]

Thanks. Now if you choose not to respond agreeably to my post 74, it does not mean you are a hypocrite. It is illustrating the same kind of fallacious argument you used on me about the unemployment check.

First I straw-maned your position, then I pompously insisted you comply to avoid being seen as a hypocrite.

Now when you try to defend yourself, I just make snarky "LOL that's funny" responses as you parse the difference between your views and the straw man.

[Jorge]

You're not presenting any "debate" to shut down. Fine. I demand all your money NOW! I will give it to charity for you. Please send all your bank information by private mail to facilitate. Or do you refuse to practice what you preach?

LOL. You are too funny.

Unfortunately you don't read my posts and don't know my position on this.

I always said I was against the idea of redistribution of wealth by Govt.

You missed my point entirely.

[AndyTheBear]

You missed my point entirely.

I meant to miss it. See my previous post.

[Jorge]

Now when you try to defend yourself, I just make snarky "LOL that's funny" responses as you parse the difference between your views and the straw man.

And that's what makes this thread so much fun!