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So if we don’t stand for what we believe in, why are we here? Jim Kolbe stood for plenty of controversial issues. He was for gay rights, open borders, political correctness, and abortion. So was his hand picked succesor. To run to the liberal side is still taking stands on these issues.

So after this thread has run its course, are the praise Rudy threads no more?

Goodness I hope so. It’s about time to wake up and realize that it’s the media who’s picking Rudy for us, for the exact reason he’s distasteful to the conservative base.

It’s a pincer move designed to ultimately keep most conservatives home Nov 2008, demoralized and disenchanted, to squeak Clinton or Obama in at the last moment.

Wake the freak up any pro-Rudy stragglers. Don’t let the MSM choose a candidate for you!

The Libs have been ecstatic over the immigration battle. Bush tried to defuse the political bomb but a segment of the party joined forces with people I don't even like to mention and defeated every attempt.

So the bomb went off, and we got fragged.

In the end, who won?

Yup......The liberals, and they will win this sort of issue each and every time because they can.

The immigration issue is now virtually lost, and I doubt we will have much input into what is finally done. They are waiting until the 2008 elections to do it, unless we cave. In any case, they will sow up the Hispanic vote for some decades to come, and they are going to become the majority ethnicity.

So that's primarily why we should have backed Bush's plan. But now it's too late.

I know a lot of people see this as a major issue politically, but frankly, it was too divisive and should have been handled with much care, and not as a club. Our future as a Republican Party with Hispanics as a majority, will be much different now. I guess we will see just how much.