Posted on 04/20/2007 2:55:42 AM PDT by Star Traveler
“From Address” on Package sent to NBC from Cho
A. Ismail
88 Revol
Blacksburg, VA
.
“88” — used as a greeting or a closing by Neo-Nazis (in e-mails or handles). Means 8th letter of alphabet (”H”); double 8’s mean “Heil Hitler”
“Revol” — revers of “lover”; or could mean “revolution”
Hence “Heil Hitler lover” [Hitler lover]; possible “Heil Hitler revolution”
LOL. Was that too loud?
...As he said “You made me do it.”...
I refuse to allow myself any reponsibility in this.
He was a nut. Trying to figure out symbols or ‘messages’ that he left in order to ‘better understand’ his actions is also ‘nuts’.
You cannot try to figure this out - it was insanity, writ large. If you try to ‘make sense’ of it you are wasting time. If you then post your ‘wild theories’ you are just helping him out by bringing him that which should be denied him in death - infamy. His name should be forgotten, his deeds should be a lesson to each of us to maintain vigilance. Anything more than that is more than he deserves.
How these wonderful liberals were going after the FBI for its abuse of power and failure to arrest any Al-quada folks for all that abuse.
What was interesting about the call, was the person made the claim that an FBI agent had made multiple recordings of a developing connection between Al-Q and the Neo nazi groups.
So perhaps that this was one such connection.
That is obvious. I was pointing to evidence that proved he was not a Nazi. Which is why you started this thread.
You said — “That is obvious. I was pointing to evidence that proved he was not a Nazi. Which is why you started this thread.”
Well, perhaps by now, I’ve made clear about that. The title is “Cho’s Possible Neo-Nazi Connection (Virginia Tech Shooter)”
And there is a Neo-Nazi connection, as shown by the information and how it fits (within the context of what was said by him and his hate and his manifesto). That’s the “connection” itself.
What you’re misunderstanding and perhaps mistaking here from me — is that I’m saying that he was an “agent” sent out on a mssion, and he had been attending meetings and he had been coordinating all this with the Neo-Nazis. Nope! That’s not the connection. You look up above and I never describe the “connection” that way.
There is a connection — but it’s not as an agent, or a recruited member, or on a “mission” from that group. Not at all. It’s a connection that he’s “picked up” and snatched a little bit here and a little bit there (from several other idealogies, too).
This just shows he *did* use and *did* pick up Neo-Nazi ideas and symbolism and use it in his twisted thinking and for justification in his manifesto. That’s the connection.
Regards,
Star Traveler
You said — “What was interesting about the call, was the person made the claim that an FBI agent had made multiple recordings of a developing connection between Al-Q and the Neo nazi groups.”
Now, mind you, I think the FBI has to keep a tight watch on all this kind of stuff, especially these days, considering what Al Qaida is intent on doing. These Islamic terrorists are relentless and, at the same time, they are not “clinically insane” so that they cannot function in society. No, they’re sane, but evil. And so, they are intent on doing us, in the U.S., great harm. Therefore, if there is something going on there, they need to be on top of it.
That being said — Cho was not in that category. You’ll note that I’ve pointed out that he cannot hold together a coherent philosphy or idealogy. It’s a series of rambings. I’ve had other FReepers say it sounds like Communism, or Marxism. Another saying there are Islamic elements in it. And now, I’m pointing out (as apparently others have already) that there are elements of Neo-Nazis, too.
But, it’s all a “mish-mash” of ideas. It’s a smorgasbord in his brain — with nothing holding sway over his perceived injustices that he’s supposedly received.
.
And then — “So perhaps that this was one such connection.”
It definitely was a “connection”. But, be careful here. That isn’t meant to say he was recruited, or that he was a member, or that he attended meetings, or that he was on a mission that they sent him on, or that he “plotted” with them. No, not at all. He was too insane and too twised in his brain that he couldn’t hold together *any* consistent and coherent idealogy or philosophy. Cho probably couldn’t even get to first base with any of these other groups even if he tried.
Cho was only “these things” (these different idealogies) inside his own twisted mind — inside his own fantasy world — the same kind of fantasy world that caused him to tell his dorm-mates that he had a “imaginary girlfriend” named Jelly....
Regards,
Star Traveler
By the way, I wanted to make a comment about that Psalm 88. I had it in mind, but I didn’t say anything before. Several commentators have said that this refers to Christ, so that it may represent a Messianic prophecy of sorts. Others have said it refers to Israel, just before the end days and before Christ comes to set up His Kingdom on earth, for that 1,000 year reign over all the nations on this earth.
I just thought I would point that out. You may already be aware of it...
Regards,
Star Traveler
Well, Cho certainly was an “equal opportunity idealogy supporter”....
:-)
VERY INTERESTING — I see the “Neo-Nazi” discussion group *killed* that thread where they were discussing Cho’s choice of Neo-Nazi symbols...
I guess they did not want that “attention” after all, from the press or from Free Republic...
AND, by the way, I picked up on that thread (in the Neo-Nazi forum) because I was reading a student blog from Virginia Tech. And some “anonymous poster” to that blog put that Neo-Nazi reference in that student blog, referring people over to that discussion. Obviously *someone* wanted the students at Virginia Tech to see the “connection” for Cho — for some reason.
But, the thread is dead now...
Regards,
Star Traveler
I looked at that article. It said —
“Oddly enough, though the gang is called the Crazy 88, it is uncertain whether it actually consists of 88 members. The reasons for the name are never stated, although Bill speculates that they thought “it sounded cool.” It has also been noted by Quentin Tarantino in an interview that the Crazy 88 were not all Japanese. Careful tracking of the fight between Kiddo and the 88 reveals there may in fact be eighty-eight members in the gang, as approximately that number of opponents are defeated by Kiddo. It is possible that the name comes from the card game crazy 8s”
In other words, they really don’t know where the name came from. Well, could it be related to that “symbol” as shown on the Anti-Defamation League’s website — when they show all the symbolism related to Nazis and Neo-Nazis?
Regards,
Star Traveler
P.S. — Let’s say it’s “all of the above” — so that it’s 88 members or it’s 88 opponents defeated, but the number “88” keeps coming up. So, in and of itself “88” takes on a significance. What is that significance — well, the Anti-Defamation League gives one *verified* significance that they are telling the public about.
This piece of his manifesto might be a symbolic way of saying "Bush is a Nazi."
Who is arguably the greatest "anti-terrorist"? President Bush. Now assign him a number that is symbolic of neo-Nazism. The result is a symbolic statement that "Bush is a Nazi."
The above interpretation is in keeping with his numerous other anti-American expressions.
88=nazi
Revol="lover" reversed=hater
therefore:
88 Revol=Nazi hater
“Ismail Ax”, the words Cho wrote on his arm, also means “88”!
i = 9
s = 19
m = 13
a = 1
i = 9
l = 12
a = 1
x = 24
Maybe Cho took the “88” and made a name out of it.
This isn’t too unrealistic. I, a few years ago, made a name out of “111”. Was my new username.
Hmmm..., now that’s interesting.
Cho took all sorts of philosophies and threw them all together in a tangled mess, in his manifesto. I imagine his brain was as tangled a mess as his last writing.
But, even so, he apparently did work on different kinds of “symbolism”. I imagine that people will be digging out other symbols, too, as they go through his stuff.
Regards,
Star Traveler
You mentioned — This piece of his manifesto might be a symbolic way of saying “Bush is a Nazi.”
Who is arguably the greatest “anti-terrorist”? President Bush. Now assign him a number that is symbolic of neo-Nazism. The result is a symbolic statement that “Bush is a Nazi.”
.
In considering this, the thought came to me about what Cho would hear on most university campuses, from the general population of students, and it was probably true at Viginia Tech. What the students hear and talk about is how Bush is subverting our rights and is trying to gain power and (in some cases) that he’s a Nazi. There’s a lot of “anti-Bush” statements on university campuses, for sure. You can imagine how the talk continues day-in and day-out. It’s an accepted part of the student culture (fueled by the liberal, anti-Bush sentiments of most of the professors, too).
And, you know..., in a normal “socialization process” that we all are a part of as we grow up and as we inter-relate in our culture, with one another — we do get to understand who is “with us’ and who is “against us”. We have the ability to keep people in those kinds of categories.
In political circles, we recognize “liberal and conservative”. We recognize Democrat and Republican. We also recognize many other and different “categories” that we all put ourselves in. And we recognize their “opposites” and who is opposed to our way of thinking and philosopies and that’s all part of our “socialization”. We “link up” with “our group” — and we “oppose” what our group opposes.
BUT, here we have Cho, who has not been able to grasp or understand this socialization process and to work within a “society”.
And so, here we’ve probably got Cho, who spouts off some “possible” anti-Bush statements (with connections to Neo-Nazis) — while at the very same time — Cho is castigating “his fellow students” — who probably helped formulate a lot of this “anti-Bush sentiment” in the first place.
Cho is against them both, and against them all.
So, Cho shows *no allegiance* to any group. If you’re “anti-Bush” then Cho may join right in with you for the moment — but the next moment, he’s going to be “anti-you” (which in this case was “anti-students” and their way of life).
Thus, Cho has a entire “mish-mash” of idealogies and competing value systems — all clashing with one another, all within one document, his manifesto. That’s apparently how his mind work — no coherence, all clashing, hating everything.
Regards,
Star Traveler
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