Posted on 03/26/2007 6:59:22 AM PDT by presidio9
The feeling here heading into a potentially historic week, when British unionists and Irish nationalists could agree to form a government, might be described as one of prerelief. Relief because there is a sense that things are finally going to go right this time, but only a preliminary one because, well, they've been down this road before.
Today we'll learn what it will be this time: devolution of a raft of governing powers from London to a local assembly elected March 7, or dissolution of the assembly and an undefined joint custody between Britain and the Republic of Ireland to the south. After years of waiting for the Provisional Irish Republican Army and its political wing, Sinn Féin, to lay down their arms and accept the rule of law, all now hinges on the hard-line Democratic Unionist Party's agreeing to work with the nationalists. Over the weekend DUP leader Ian Paisley, the Protestant minister dubbed "Dr. No" for his refusal even to speak with Sinn Féin, demanded a six-week extension. For all the bluster, though, there is still a decent chance that an arrangement will be made.
If anyone embodies Northern Ireland's incomplete transition to self rule, it's Gerry Adams. The Sinn Féin leader is widely accused of, and always denies, having ties to the highest levels of the IRA. Either way, and right or wrong, the fact is that he's become a legitimate actor on the political stage in the eyes of the British. That the onus is on Mr. Paisley and the DUP to go along with power-sharing, or risk absorbing the public's outrage for failing to do so, goes to show just how much the perception of Mr. Adams and Sinn Féin has changed. The IRA, remember, is blamed
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This just proves the point that gerrymandering works. I wonder what the results would have been if they let the whole of the country vote on the Home Rule issue back in 1920 when England decided to split the country in two.
So why does America vote using states and not the population as a whole? Is that Gerrymandering or just the way it was done.
As you well know, most of Ulster WANTED to remain in the UK.
I have no problem with that, but the Brits have always practiced "conquer and divide" and THAT is what has caused this problem. There were NO Protestants in Ireland until England PUT them there!
The Catholics of Northern Ireland have a say also.
Can we all decide that if your logic applies in Ireland they apply everywhere?
What you are saying is:
Even if your ancestors have been in Ireland for 400 years, you are still not Irish. This means the million Irish in GB should be forced to go home too.
As GB put English, Scots, Welsh and Irish in North America well AFTER the protestants went to Ireland should all current American descendants go home too and leave America to the Native Americans?
Do you see what you are really saying?
Be consistent.
I'll accept the Good Friday agreement if Gerry Adams soes. Wait - he does. :)
Agree
I don't recall the Protestants staging bombing campaigns in Dublin to match the Catholic bombings in London.
I believe the county boundaries predated the decison as to which counties joined Ireland and which stayed.
Seeing how the EU is developing and the UK is falling apart, moving NI over to Ireland may end up being mostly symbolic anyway, assuming that Ireland is irrational enough to accept it.
The situation with Quebec is no where near the same, since large chunks of it would want to stay with Canada.
If the Maritimes could still connected to the rest of Canada, many would be glad to see the "vrai laine" stew in their own juices. Then again France would get a supporter in the UN for the use of the French language...
They did when seperation occured, the majority of the people in those areas, who had been there for generations at that point voted to stay affiliated with England. Your argument would turn the Falklands back to Argentina too. Is that where you want to go?
What is also curious is the few in the US who understand this part of history.
I wore an orange hat and no green on St Patrick's Day. No one challenged it or knew what it meant. I found that truly sad.
One observation: While I do no share in anyway the objectives, means, and ideology of the Provos, they do have some rocking music.
The issue is not religious per se, it is a matter of suddenly having to deal with the problems posed by a large group of people incorporated against their will into your country. That is why the Republic of Ireland is not too keen on a united Ireland, in spite of their official statements. The problems would be enormous unless the majority agreed to the change, and it would all be the Republic's problem, instead of being mainly the UK's problem as it is now. It would be like giving California back to Mexico, to draw a rough analogy - how happy would most of the Californians be about it? Not very.
Guess we won that round elc, since yer man did not respond to any of the facts you and I stated...see all the fun you're missing I_T!
On May 17, 1974 car bombs exploded in Monaghan and Dublin, Republic of Ireland, killing 33 and wounding 258. These were carried out by the Ulster Volunteer Force. There are also other documented car bombings and pub bombings carried out by Protestant Loyalist Paramilitary groups. Why do these atrocities go unnoticed or unreported? Furthermore, it is suspected that British Security Forces may have been involved in the Monaghan and Dublin attacks as it was believed the UVF did not have the expertise or sophistication necessary to carry out such attacks alone.
On May 17, 1974 car bombs exploded in Monaghan and Dublin, Republic of Ireland, killing 33 and wounding 258. These were carried out by the Ulster Volunteer Force. There are also other documented car bombings and pub bombings carried out by Protestant Loyalist Paramilitary groups. Why do these atrocities go unnoticed or unreported? Furthermore, it is suspected that British Security Forces may have been involved in the Monaghan and Dublin attacks as it was believed the UVF did not have the expertise or sophistication necessary to carry out such attacks alone.
Re your comments on my quote:
"I've spent time in Northern Ireland during the troubles and the land deserves to be free."
You've both got the wrong idea due to my sloppy phrasing. I meant free from bloodshed, violence and terror. Nothing else was implied. As to where they eventually land politically, I care not as long as it is peacefully arrived at with the support of a majority and the preservation of fights for the minority.
I agree that both sides have blood on their hands and I think my earlier poosts respect that. Whilst I've always disliked Ian and have difficulty trusting him given his rhetoric over the years and the number of deals he's scuppered, I'm prepared to give him room to manoeuvre now that he seems to finally be willing to accomodate the general mood for peace on both sides.
Both camps have extremists - we just have to make sure they can't bugger it all up!
I would be curious as to where you were when you were wearing your orange hat. In any event, orange is part of the Irish Flag and anyone who has an understanding of Irish history knows the relevance of this. The flag represents the coming together of Irish Catholics and Irish Protestants in their fight for a united Ireland and free from rule of England. Many Protestants held to that ideal and found themselves swinging from the end of a rope because of it. Let's face it. The majority of Protestants in the past hated Catholics and the Catholic religion and chose to set up their own Protestant autocrasy rather than live with those heathen and pagan Catholics. There is still hope that somehow the modern day Northern Irish Protestants can come out of their 17th century shell and realize that the Pope does not want to convert them to Catholocism. I believe most of them feel this way but their leaders like Ian Paisley fill them with the same hate for Catholics that muslum imams fill their followers with hate toward Christions and Jews. Anyway, the majority of Americans from Irish descent know full well what you want them to believe what the orange stands for so that you can provoke a response. To Americans of Irish descent you're either Irish or not. Orange or Green, Irish is Irish.
Amen.
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