Posted on 03/16/2007 5:23:16 AM PDT by FairOpinion
As am I . . . if the choice is McLame or Hillary or Obama.
I was wrong in predicting 2006 elections (right in 2004 and 2002), but I don't think I'm wrong about this: those on the right, regardless of the particular issue that stirs them are looking this time out for a FIGHTER---someone who will take on libs on SOME issues and fight, not accomodate them. If I find someone who will actually FIGHT the enemy on even 40% of the issues I agree on, then that's fine. It's better than agreeing on 100% of the issues and not ever seeing the enemy defeated on anything.
Those who think Rudy will not attract conservative, evangelical, pro-gun, or pro-life votes are absolutely wrong.
And pro-Rudy people who think that Fred Thompson isn't a major viable alternative are just as wrong.
I belong to a 10000 member church.....and what you are saying isn't true where I am.
Fred would draw from three of the main contenders immediately: Rudy, McLame, and Newt, all for different reasons. He'd draw from Newt's people because he's a conservative who can win, and from Rudy and McLame's because he's more conservative than Rudy.
And the ones that jump to Thompson did not really want to support Rudy in the first place.
I think you misread the Rudy supporters. Most are with Rudy because they think he'll win not because the want him as President. As soon as someone more to their liking looks credible, he'll start dropping in the polls which sets off a chain reaction.
I won't and cant support a liberal like Rino Rudy.
I'll tell you something else: people in traditionally conservative churches, especially women, are often afraid to voice a favorable opinion on someone like Rudy, but you may find that in smaller groups, esp. women's Bible studies, a completely different view. There IS an intimidation factor.
And FWIW, a totally moral, 1st tier candidate for governor here in OH got CREAMED by a pro-gay, pro-choice guy. Ohio.
Don't believe the stereotypes.
Fred would draw from three of the main contenders immediately: Rudy, McLame, and Newt, all for different reasons. He'd draw from Newt's people because he's a conservative who can win, and from Rudy and McLame's because he's more conservative than Rudy.
Yes, most of Romney and McCain's supporters are there because they are right of Rudy and still seem credible.
I have not talked to one church goer yet that supports abortion. I would imagine once they hear that Rudy is an abortionist supporter, they'll change their mind. Information is power.
Now, around here, the common retort is, "Well, they aren't really Christians" or some such nonsense.
I learned my lesson in 2006 to ignore polls. I won't do it again. You people better figure this out: these polls showing Rudy up are pretty darn accurate. Someone has to BEAT him, because bad-mouthing him will not change anything. And so far, there is no one on the right who is coming close to beating him. Now, if Fred Thompson enters the race, that might change.
But don't fool yourselves into thinking that "churchgoers" or "pro-life" people won't support Rudy if push comes to shove.
I spoke at a VERY large county GOP convention two weeks ago here in OH and there were many people I know who were committed Christians reluctantly saying they would support Rudy.
Any candidate who wants to be taken seriously MUST prove that he can beat the top democrats!
That proves my point. They don't want Rudy because of who he is - they want someone to win and not because they really liked Rudy in the first place. So they don't care who it is. Listen we thought the same thing about a bunch of conservatives in 2006 and thought because they were wonderly conservative and had their perfect little families that they would sweep and win their elections and guess what - they didn't win. Don't depend too much on Thompson to beat Hillary or any Democrat because you might be surprised at the lack of response in the U.S. to him running. FR is not the rest of the U.S. The excitement here might not be carried over to the rest of the country.
That said, what do YOU do if that comes to pass? I'd take Fred over Rudy in a heartbeat.
Don't depend too much on Thompson to beat Hillary or any Democrat because you might be surprised at the lack of response in the U.S. to him running. FR is not the rest of the U.S. The excitement here might not be carried over to the rest of the country.
You maybe right. We'll know soon enough if Thompson gets in.
If you think the ONLY question is "WHO CAN BEAT HILLARY" then things are much worse than I thought.
Then again, maybe thats all rudy supporters have on their side....Put fear into the voters by saying that if they dont vote for Rudy, they are going to get stuck with hillary. Not the best politcal strategy IMO.
MM
yuk. A no-go from many angles for me.
I'll stay home first.
If Thompson gets in and he wins the nomination he gets my vote of course. But I don't see much excitement outside with the man on the street. They don't even know that he was a Senator - they think of him as a Hollywood actor.
Sitting in church does not make one a Christian any more than sitting in a garage turns one into a '57 Chevy.
Christians who live their Faith, who know the Word of God, fully understand that Rudy's social positions are diametrically opposed to the moral standards of the Bible.
Would Jesus defend the 'right' of a woman to have a partial birth abortion (infanticide) committed on her nearly born child?
No.
But Rudy does.
Evangelicals are Southern Baptists, Assembly of God, Four Square.
Catholics are not what I consider conservatives.
And Ohio is not a conservative stronghold...sheesh...no wonder you have such a distorted world view.
If Thompson gets in and he wins the nomination he gets my vote of course. But I don't see much excitement outside with the man on the street. They don't even know that he was a Senator - they think of him as a Hollywood actor.
At this point, excitement on the street isn't important. It's not something that can be sustained. The politically active are what sets the tone this far out.
I think you make some very valid points, but soliciting opinions at a county GOP convention, from committed Christians or anyone else, is going to yield skewed results.
Based on the poll data to this point I think it's fair to say that a significant percentage of GOP voters are still unaware of Giuliani's positions on many issues. If his support is softer among regular church goers it stands to reason that support will soften more as his views become widely known. Enough to derail his candidacy? I don't know, but it won't help.
Additionally, there's more to winning than garnering "reluctant" support. Many of those church goers and pro-lifers are the boots on the ground necessary to generate and sustain momemtum. Rudy may well get their votes, but if he doesn't get their sweat he's still in trouble.
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