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School district sued over graduation held in church
CNN ^ | March 8, 2007 | AP Story

Posted on 03/08/2007 11:59:23 AM PST by Islander7

TRENTON, New Jersey (AP) -- The state chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union is suing the Newark public school district, saying a school's decision to hold its graduation ceremonies in a Baptist church violated a Muslim student's religious freedom.

The New Jersey ACLU said Wednesday that it was suing the school district because its decision to hold graduation in the church prevented West Side High School senior Bilal Shareef, a Muslim, from attending. Shareef's religious beliefs forbid him from entering a building with religious images, the civil liberties group said.

The incident violated provisions in the state constitution prohibiting public institutions from showing a preference for certain religious sects over others; compelling people to attend a place of worship; and segregating or discriminating against public school students because of their religious principles, the ACLU-NJ asserts.

"Schools should not sponsor activities that exclude some students from participation on the basis of religious belief," said ACLU-NJ's legal director, Ed Barocas, who is representing Shareef and his father.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; News/Current Events; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: aclu; islam; muhammadsminions; muslimmadness; muslimmania; religion; rop; school
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To: antiRepublicrat

"Before going off on a Muslim over this, remember that a conservative Jew is also forbidden from entering, or even going close to, a church due to the idolatry issue."

We could go into the basement --- just not the chapel proper or the alcove.

Went to a lot of receptions and skipped the weddings, in my youth. First in line for the booze. :)


41 posted on 03/08/2007 1:05:21 PM PST by MeanWestTexan (Kol Hakavod Lezahal)
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To: antiRepublicrat
Before going off on a Muslim over this, remember that a conservative Jew is also forbidden from entering, or even going close to, a church due to the idolatry issue.

Yeah, I know all that. When I was younger Catholics were discouraged from entering protestant Churches. That is when I decided that it was just silly. I have been in Buddhist Temples, Mosques, Jewish Temples and Catholic Churches with no ill effects. It is the only area where our courts uphold allowing a person to be offend and thus prevent everyone else from partaking of something (ie. Christian/Jewish churches).

The discrimination must be stopped and not defended in the name of one religions rules. My religion is against homosexuality, but I don't notice the court allowing me to be offended by that and outlawing the behavior. Rules should apply equally to everyone, not just the easily offended Muslims.

42 posted on 03/08/2007 1:10:19 PM PST by w1andsodidwe (Jimmy Carter allowed radical Islam to get a foothold in Iran.)
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To: Islander7

Dear ACLU and muslim student,
Please take into account that your average American cares more about what they are eating than this students discomfort. If he wants special rights because of his religion, he'll just have to toughen up and deal without. It will make him a stronger person and teach him to be more tolerant to the majority instead of the other way around. We conservatives do not wish to have our money spent on this student and wish for this to just roll over and die. If this angers you, just remember, we have guns.

Ryan


43 posted on 03/08/2007 1:10:45 PM PST by dudewheresmytank (life is good and ammunation is cheap, use both freely)
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To: MeanWestTexan
"The Church of the Holy Sepulcher was invaded by Amaleks, er I mean Palestians, for example."

...which the media totally ignored as they used the birthplace of Jesus as a toilet for days...

Here is the FreeRepublic link to the desecration of The Church of the Holy Sepulcher.

LINK
44 posted on 03/08/2007 1:12:10 PM PST by DocRock (What would Solomon Do?)
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To: MeanWestTexan
While I certainly have NO respect for the muslim religion, I do have great respect for a government not imposing a religion on a citizen, or de facto forcing them to do something against their religion. Here, you have a state actor (school) apparently forcing a person to do something that is legitimately against as established relgious belief (going into a Church). Alas, as much it disgusts me to side with the muzzie, he's correct. Bit like Nazis having the right to march peacefully in Illinois.

I wonder how they forced him into the church. Tear gas? Water cannon? I didn't read _anything_ in the article about him being forced into the church. Seems to me he could have opted out of the ceremony if his beliefs were so strong. NO church service was taking place. This is nothing more than the ACLU trying to further distort the already twisted establishment clause (and also line their wallets with some taxpayer money). Here we have the ACLU making the outrageous argument that simply holding a sectarian service in a church building amounts to an establishment of religion. Think again before you support them - this is the same justification that is used to ban Christmas carols at schools. I don't support tyranny of the individual whim.

45 posted on 03/08/2007 1:16:34 PM PST by Hacksaw (Appalachian by the grace of God!)
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To: dmz
Do you know a lot of Baptists who would go to graduation were it held in a mosque, and if not, would you suggest that it is due to the shakiness of their faith?

There is nothing in the tenets of the Baptist teaching that would forbid someone from participating in a public school graduation ceremony that happened to be conducted in a mosque. It would be an individual choice not to do so.

46 posted on 03/08/2007 1:17:01 PM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: MeanWestTexan
Here, you have a state actor (school) apparently forcing a person to do something that is legitimately against as established relgious belief (going into a Church).

No one is forced to attend the graduation ceremony. They can just not participate and obtain the diploma in some other fashion.

47 posted on 03/08/2007 1:18:36 PM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: w1andsodidwe
Yeah, I know all that. When I was younger Catholics were discouraged from entering protestant Churches. That is when I decided that it was just silly.

That does sound silly and contrived. Modern Christians don't take the second Commandment as far as Jews and Muslims, so there's really no basis, except for fear of conversion, to forbid entering another denomination's church.

But with the Jews and Muslims, it's about idolatry.

My religion is against homosexuality, but I don't notice the court allowing me to be offended by that and outlawing the behavior.

Some day soon in San Francisco a public school will have its graduation in a gay bath house, and then you'll have a good case. I have no problem in general with a graduation being in a church. But in this case a public institution's choice of venue basically told a student he couldn't go to his own graduation. I do see a problem with that, but they should have been able to settle this reasonably.

48 posted on 03/08/2007 1:25:24 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: MeanWestTexan
Went to a lot of receptions and skipped the weddings, in my youth. First in line for the booze. :)

I guess sometimes prohibitions have their advantages.

49 posted on 03/08/2007 1:27:20 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: massgopguy

Typically just a "bare" cross - and perhaps a stained glass window or two depicting Bibical events


50 posted on 03/08/2007 1:29:19 PM PST by VRWCTexan (History has a long memory - but still repeats itself)
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To: voltaires_zit
If the graduation was being held in conjunction with the church's Sunday morning worship service I might see your point. But if it's just using the physical plant then it's different. What makes an idol an idol is how those seeing it feel about it. I am a Christian, but I don't let statues of religious significance to other religions bother me. It's only an idol if I choose to treat it as one. Otherwise it's just another pretty statue, or maybe not depending on what the statue is.
51 posted on 03/08/2007 1:30:18 PM PST by jwparkerjr
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To: MEGoody

"No one is forced to attend the graduation ceremony. They can just not participate and obtain the diploma in some other fashion."

How silly.

By the same rationale, I guess high schools in Dearborn, MI can require all people who want to go to the official ceremony recite that "There is no God, but A!!! and Monutjob is his profit?!"

--- you know, because the graduation ceremony is "voluntary" and no one is forced to participate.

Schools in CA actually did this, BTW. There was a requirement for kids to go through religious sensitivity classes. One course made the kids dress like muzzies and recite that particular phrase. I recall the uproar on FR about imposition of religion.

Goose, meet gander.


52 posted on 03/08/2007 1:35:19 PM PST by MeanWestTexan (Kol Hakavod Lezahal)
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To: jwparkerjr

Do you really want to put the government in the position of deciding which of **your** religious beliefs are silly and whether you should be allowed to avail yourself of government facilities and functions without violating them?


53 posted on 03/08/2007 1:35:34 PM PST by voltaires_zit (Government is the problem, not the answer.)
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To: massgopguy
Well I guess he won't be going to BC, Notre Dame or Holy Cross.

I seem to remember Georgetown U. and maybe some of these as well were taking down crucifixes in classrooms to avoid Muslim sensibilities among others.

54 posted on 03/08/2007 1:40:02 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: jwparkerjr

"But if it's just using the physical plant then it's different. What makes an idol an idol is how those seeing it feel about it. I am a Christian, but I don't let statues of religious significance to other religions bother me. It's only an idol if I choose to treat it as one. Otherwise it's just another pretty statue, or maybe not depending on what the statue is."

I agree with you, personally.

But the prohibition of Orthodox Jews from entering into a place of Christian worship was halichially decided (to vastly oversimply, by the Sanhedrin), and personal feelings aside, 'tis the Law for Jews (until such time as a comprable or higher "court" makes a different ruling) that entry would be a endorsement of polytheism, and thus violate the rule of having no God, but God.

Again, have no clue about muzzies, and doubt it is a true objection, as I have seen many muslims enter Churches.


55 posted on 03/08/2007 1:41:22 PM PST by MeanWestTexan (Kol Hakavod Lezahal)
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To: Islander7

Why do these municipalities even bother to file answers in these ridiculous lawsuits? Let the ACLU get a summary judgment and then try to enforce it. Every school and town sued by the ACLU should ignore all such lawsuits and any corresponding court orders or sanctions. If everyone ignored and stymied them they would quickly run out of money.


56 posted on 03/08/2007 1:45:36 PM PST by montag813
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To: Islander7

No one forced that Muslim to be here. This is a Christian nation and his parents knew that when they got here. Imagine if I, a Catholic did the same in Saudi Arabia? Those jerks wouldn't even allow me in school. In fact, there'd be a good chance I'd be dead. If Muslims are so offended then they have to go and live in a Muslim country where they won't be "denied their rights".


57 posted on 03/08/2007 1:45:58 PM PST by rbosque
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To: Islander7
Shareef's religious beliefs forbid him from entering a building with religious images

Not all Muslims believe that, so this is an easy case to dismiss.

58 posted on 03/08/2007 1:48:51 PM PST by montag813
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To: antiRepublicrat
But with the Jews and Muslims, it's about idolatry.

But that is there problem, not mine. Why must I be punished because of their belief system, when I cannot make them be punished because they don't agree with me? That is the crucial question. Why is it one sided? In case you don't know (and apparently you don't) Idolatry is also forbidden to Christians, so what in the heck would be in a Baptist church that would bother anyone?

59 posted on 03/08/2007 1:53:53 PM PST by w1andsodidwe (Jimmy Carter allowed radical Islam to get a foothold in Iran.)
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To: voltaires_zit
I'm not sure what I said that would indicate that's how I feel. I'm simply saying that it's the faith of a worshipper that makes a place, any place, sacred to that person, not what others think of it.

It's not the government that's making this function off limits, it's the person's religion.

I see what you're saying though, and I would have no problem if a group, any group, decides not to use the facilities of Bayshore Baptist Church here in Tampa where I am a member for any reason whatsoever.

It's all about tolerance, and strangely enough those who demand the most of it seem to have the least of it.
60 posted on 03/08/2007 1:54:07 PM PST by jwparkerjr
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