Posted on 03/04/2007 12:42:12 PM PST by tcostell
I don't really mind the constant commercials for Rudy Giuliani. He's got a story to tell, and he's got a lot of strengths as a candidate. but I'm sick to death his advocates making the totally unsubstantiated claim that he's a conservative. So for those of you who seem to be absolutely liberal in your abilty to ignore the facts, I've put together a little visual aid.
The shape you see here is whats called a "normal distribution". If you were to divide a group of people by any random characteristic (height, weight, whatever) this chart would describe how many people you found at each level. If this were about height, then you'd see that a few would be very short, a few very tall, and most, would be somewhere in the middle.
In this case we're talking about political affiliation. While it's true that Rudy is to the right of Hillary and Ted Kennedy, (and Joseph Stalin for that matter) he is not what we here on FreeRepublic refer to as "A conservative." Is he more conservative than Hillary? Yes... who isn't. But that does not make him a conservative. He is a New York City Liberal, who is more conservative than his surroundings. That's all.
Does that mean that he can't win? ... no it doesn't. All this little graphic means is that he is to the left of the general population, even if he is to the right in New York City.
And for those of you who take excpetion to where I put the lines, give me a break. It's just a simple diagram for the even simpler folks who can't seem to get the obvious. Please don't drown me in Freepmail asserting that George Bush should be further to the right, or Milton Friedman was really a fascist. It's not about them.
I'm just sick of being told the sky is red, down is up, black is white, and Rudy Giuliani is a conservative.
None of those things is true, and they don't get any more true if you say them 12 gazillion times.
You did well in making your point.
Guiliani is on the left wing.
GWB has turned into somewhat of a RINO himself these past couple of years.
Where is he on the authoritatian scale?
Many of the rude Rudy rooters may in fact be democrats in stealth mode seeking to carve as deep divides as they can, fomenting bad blood and bile to prevent unity when the time comes to vote. Real conservatives know Rudy is no conservative, even if stealth democraps and libertarians try to convince you he is in order to deepen the divisions in the Republican party.
Actually, yes! If Ted 'the swimmer' Kennedy had not killed the enforcement provisions which would have drastically affected illegal immigration and business dependence upon same, the entire plan was quite conservative.
Starting to think the same thing myself, there really is no other logical or rational reason for their Rudy support. Time and Time again they have been shown Rudy's positions but they refuse to stop supporting him.
Any real conservative would never give up their 1st and second amendment rights. To say nothing of Rudy's Pro-Abort/Pro-Gay/Pro-Global warming stances.
Most of these very same people were on these boards during the CFR and assault weapon ban bs, typing until they could not type any more, in direct opposition to these laws.
Now all of a sudden they support someone who is everything they said they hated in Liberals. They talk about flip-flopping yet they are doing that in spades. Some if not most fit the exact profile of a mole for the Libs.
I think there have been many people who were more "conservative" than Milton Friedman, who was really a classical liberal or libertarian, and had little interest in tradition, religion, or culture beyond economics. Because the American nation began with a highly liberal system and philosophy, to defend tradition is to defend individual freedom, and to be an effective advocate for freedom, you should really embrace the rest of American tradition, which includes religion, family, and other non-governmental sources of order. Some here on FR seem to think you can base a free society on the value-free premises of the libertine left. That won't work. Even Hayek said so.
Didn't know Selma Hayek made political comments. Live and learn ...
but I don't know... is there another position?
Not on ice.
One of Friedman's philosophical "ancestors," maybe von Mises, wrote something called "Why I Am Not a Conservative." They are part of a tradition of liberalism going back centuries in the West, which gradually enlarged individual freedom at the expense of hereditary aristocrats, kings, established churches, etc. Too bad the honorable name of liberal has been coopted by socialists, who are taking us right back to serfdom. Unfortunately, people like Friedman see everything in economic terms, and think every problem can be fixed by the market system. Unfortunately, a market system doesn't guarantee political or religious freedom, as China is demonstrating to the whole world. Since the world is always going to include very nasty people who want to enslave others, free nations have to put aside abstract libertarian dogma about pure free trade if they are going to stay free at all. Ditto for unrestrained immigration, etc.
How right you are! There's a good tagline in there somewhere.
China at its present stage is not stable. Either the market will devour the "sinity" or the sinity will smother the market. The latter is more probable.
I think the only reason the ChiCom Party wanted reform was to build the economy enough to become a world power and defeat the U.S. I think they can easily hang on long enough to do that. Our leaders are engaging in suicidal wishful thinking in belief that the commies can't pull it off. The ChiCom Party includes millions of people with a stake in their corrupt one-party system, and that party has never cringed at killing millions of people.
Incidentally, people who think freedom vs. tyranny is all about economic systems, and that Christianity is an enemy of freedom, should wonder why the Chinese expend so much effort trying to stamp out the growing Christian churches. Why do they think they are such a threat? The other side of the coin is: Why do leftists in this country hate Christianity so much also, and why are so many of the most fervent defenders of freedom in this country Christians?
I heard a rumor that there are actually Rudy staffers posting here at Freepers.....
They can post till their fingers bleed, I will NEVER EVER vote for Socialist Rudy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Falun Gong is not Christian. It is their general knee-jerk desire [purely collectivist in nature] to control everything above a certain [pretty low] threshold of significance.
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