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Rudy’s a No-Go
National Review ^ | 2/6/2007 | Terence P. Jeffrey

Posted on 02/06/2007 10:43:27 AM PST by ElkGroveDan

“Murder and graffiti are two vastly different crimes,” Rudy Giuliani once said. “But they are part of the same continuum, and a climate that tolerates one is more likely to tolerate the other.”

Good point, Rudy.

Now, what about a climate — not to mention a Republican presidential candidate — that not only tolerates, but allows unelected judges to legalize the practice of delivering a child until only its head remains within its mothers womb so the child can be killed by sucking out its brains?

What about a climate where same-sex couples are given the same legal status as married couples, whether the resulting arrangements are candidly called “same-sex marriages,” or are semantically papered-over with terms such as “civil unions” or “domestic partnerships”?

Apply the Giuliani Continuum to fundamental issues such as marriage and the right to life, and where does it lead?

Not where conservatives want America to be.

Rudy Giuliani’s observation about the “continuum” running from graffiti to murder was quoted in a piece in the winter edition of City Journal by Steven Malanga. The title of Malanga’s piece neatly encapsulates his argument: “Yes, Rudy is a Conservative — and an electable one at that.”

I believe Malanga is wrong on both counts. Rudy is neither conservative, nor electable — at least, not as a Republican presidential candidate.

As Malanga seems to define it, a politician dedicated to good police work and free-market economics qualifies as a conservative. “Far from being a liberal,” Malanga writes of Giuliani, “he ran New York with a conservative’s priorities: government exists above all to keep people safe in their homes and in the streets, he said, not to redistribute income, run a welfare state, or perform social engineering. The private economy, not government, creates opportunity, he argued; government should just deliver basic services well and then get out of the private sector’s way.”

But that’s not enough. While advocating law and order, self-reliance, and capitalism is laudable, it does not entitle a politician to a free pass for advocating other causes that are deeply destructive of American society.

While it is always wrong to take an innocent human life — whether on a New York sidewalk or in a mother’s womb — Giuliani is highly selective in applying this principle. In 1999, when he was pondering a run for the U.S. Senate, he was asked whether he supported banning partial-birth abortion. “No, I have not supported that,” he said, “and I don’t see my position on that changing.”

“I'm pro-gay rights,” he also said. Indeed, his position is so radical in this area that as New York City mayor he promoted a city ordinance that removed the distinctions in municipal law between married and unmarried couples, regardless of their gender.

“What it really is doing is preventing discrimination against people who have different sexual orientations, or make different preferences in which they want to lead their lives,” Giuliani said, explaining the ordinance to the New York Times. “Domestic partnerships not only affect gays and lesbians, but they also affect heterosexuals who choose to lead their lives in different ways.”

In other words, preserving a legal order that prefers traditional marriage and traditional families is “discrimination.”

Giuliani’s positions on abortion and marriage disqualify him as a conservative because they annihilate the link between the natural law and man-made laws. Indeed, they use man-made law to promote and protect acts that violate the natural law.

Given his argument that there is a “continuum” between graffiti and murder, you would think that Giuliani would understand the importance of the link between the natural law and the laws of New York City, let alone the laws of the United States. At the heart of Rudy’s “continuum” argument, is the realization that when society refuses to enforce a just law it teaches people to disrespect the moral principles underlying just laws.

The late Russell Kirk argued in The Conservative Mind that the first canon of conservatism is “[b]elief in a transcendent order, or body of natural law, which rules society as well as conscience. Political problems, at bottom, are religious and moral problems. … True politics is the art of apprehending and applying the Justice which ought to prevail in a community of souls.”

It is simply not justice to take the life of an unborn child. Nor is it justice to codify same-sex relationships so that, by design of the state itself, a child can be denied a mother or a father from birth, which is one thing legalized same-sex unions would do.

By advocating abortion on demand and same-sex unions, Rudy is doing something far more egregious than, say, defacing a New York subway train. He is defacing the institution that forms the foundation of human civilization.

That is not conservative.

Rudy will not win the Republican nomination because enough of the people who vote in Republican caucuses and primaries still respect life and marriage, and are not ready to give up on them — or on the Republican party as an agent for protecting them.


TOPICS: Editorial; Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: abortion; elections; gays; giuliani; giuliani2008; homosexualagenda; liberalagenda; moralabsolutes; pitchforkers; prolife; rubots; rudyagogo; rudycanbeathillary; rudytherednosedrino; singleissuevoters; unappeaseables; wot
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To: garv
Tom Delay was just on Cavuto and said Rudy is a non-starter. No pro-abortion politician will represent the Republican party.

Not if they want there to still be a Republican Party.

321 posted on 02/06/2007 1:51:02 PM PST by EternalVigilance (With Republicans like these, who needs Democrats?)
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To: The South Texan; ElkGroveDan

I am now referring to these as the "Party of One" people. See post # 301 . . .


322 posted on 02/06/2007 1:51:40 PM PST by wouldntbprudent (If you can: Contribute more (babies) to the next generation of God-fearing American Patriots!)
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To: Lizarde
actually Delay said it was early and in fact he equivocated.

Such courage. /s

323 posted on 02/06/2007 1:51:48 PM PST by EternalVigilance (With Republicans like these, who needs Democrats?)
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To: hellbender

The most conservative Republican out there, Newt Gingrich, doesn't have a prayer of winning a general election, so sometimes it's true. Was George H.W. Bush the most conservative Republican running in 1988? Nooooo....Was George W. Bush the most conservative Republican running in 2000? Nooooo.....so sometimes the most conservative Republican doesn't get the nomination. If Rudy gets it, this will be no different than the past.


324 posted on 02/06/2007 1:52:16 PM PST by WillT
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To: EternalVigilance
Pro-abort politicians, and folks like you, have been complicit in more brutal deaths of Americans than any Iranian ever dreamed of having the power to commit. The total is now about 50 million dead, in fact. I guess you guys are shooting for 100 million, eh?

You, sir or madame, have no idea what you are talking about. I am not "pro-abort" - you have probably never met anyone as opposed to abortion as I am. Trying to blame ME for the deaths of tens of millions is absolutely absurd.

My point is not to support or defend Guiliani or any other Republican - it is merely to point out that allowing a democrat to win the White House is ALWAYS going to be worse.

If "fools like you" can't see that - then you are either dense or mentally ill.

325 posted on 02/06/2007 1:53:58 PM PST by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: wouldntbprudent
Boy, that's a pretty easy way to deflect your own responsibility in the matter.

Exactly what is my own responsibility, as you see it?

326 posted on 02/06/2007 1:54:26 PM PST by jla
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Conclusion: A President has no impact on social policy.

Except for judicial nominations, which the president barely has any impact on either, you are exactly correct.

327 posted on 02/06/2007 1:55:19 PM PST by wouldntbprudent (If you can: Contribute more (babies) to the next generation of God-fearing American Patriots!)
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To: WillT

Yes, he deserves credit for cleaning up NYC, but crime in some rotten Eastern city, and the Mafia, are very minor issues to most Americans, esp. in the South and West, where he is going to have to win primaries. The SoCons are a far larger bloc than the "anti-Mafia" bloc, is such a thing really exists. Besides, we have at least as much organized crime as we ever did; only the names have changed. We now have Hispanic gangs, the Russian mob, etc., thanks to our wimpy immigration policy.


328 posted on 02/06/2007 1:55:57 PM PST by hellbender
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To: wouldntbprudent
Sorry to see you making a fool of yourself. If you read any of my posts you would know that I am NOT in the "teach the GOP a lesson crowd". If you are going to make ASSumptions about me then don't bother posting to me. Go read my posts and you will know that I am not what you accused me of.
329 posted on 02/06/2007 1:57:08 PM PST by dmw (Aren't you glad you use common sense, don't you wish everybody did?)
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To: Tokra; Jim Robinson; Gelato

Introducing Hannityspeak

Helen Valois
February 6, 2007

Orwellian euphemism is nothing new in the realm of contemporary American political discourse. Choice, translated by the left, refers to the chopping up of unborn children. Peaceful patriotism permits the trashing of our troops. Just now in a shocking scandal for adjectives everywhere, verbal authorities have booked articulate for bearing concealed racial overtones. We shouldn't, but we do get acclimated to this kind of rank pseudo-intellectualism after a while. What is jarring is to hear linguistic engineering of mind-bending magnitude coming not from the left, but from conservative commentators themselves.

Monday night on Hannity and Colmes, RINO Rudi announced his intention of announcing his candidacy for the office of President of the United States, which is as close to making sense as the entire interview ever got. What we heard from the presumptive Republican front runner was the whole set of self-contradictions one would expect from a liberal hijacking a conservative ticket: that he is "personally opposed" to abortion while upholding a "woman's right to choose;" that he defines marriage as between a man and a woman but simultaneously supports "domestic partnerships;" that he is not for "amnesty" for undocumented workers but does believe in their "regularization," meaning that those who break immigration law should become the ones who make it. When John Kerry reverses himself over the course of several months on the subject of the war in Iraq, the right-wing talking heads never tire of highlighting it. But let the former mayor of New York thrash like a trout on a line in the course of a single interview, and everyone on our side of the aisle is supposed to nod in solemn wonder, if Hannity's handling of the whole farcical situation is any indication.

Giuliani's gymnastics would be unremarkable — they are certainly unoriginal — if not for the fact that this same man demonstrates lucidity and singularity of purpose when the terrorist threat to our nation is invoked. This, of course, is the pillar on which his "conservative" credentials are precariously teetering, the one issue alleged as trumping all the others. Pardon me. The word isn't trumping any more — a position which common sense and a moment's uninterrupted reflection will reveal as positively spurious. How can the right to liberty outrank the right to life? According to Sean Hannity's post-interview reflections, however, what Rudi has actually done isn't really waffling after all. For RINOs only, it is hereafter to be known as transcending the issues. That's what Sean said. Giuliani is succeeding, he believes, not in betraying conservative principles but in transcending them.

Judging by its context, his neologism must mean something like: "getting people to cave in about things it is positively disastrous for them to cave in about." Hannity seems to connect his inventive term with Dick Morris' revelation that three-quarters of the conservatives he talked to were ready to overlook Rudi's handicaps in the interest of defeating Hillary. (Wouldn't this be an insult to Obama, by the way, that it isn't in the interest of defeating him?) So, let's see how Hannityspeak would work out in other situations.

Bill Clinton in the waning days of his administration evidently did a bang-up job of transcending perjury (to pick a problem of his more or less at random). Who knew? I see now with the clarity of vision Sean has imparted that the trend in the European nations is towards transcending Islamofascism, not catering to it. It must also be the case that Terri Schindler Schiavo's right to life — sadly, according to just about the only high profile American journalist who truly extended himself in an effort to defend it — wasn't really violated in the end, but only transcended. And so forth.

If Rudi Giuliani or anybody like him manages to gain the support of a majority of conservatives, it will deal our cause a more serious blow than anything that Hillary or Barack or anybody else could do, from inside the White House or outside. Liberals can only set the conservative agenda back. RINOs are attempting to define it out of existence. If the handful of conservative commentators in the mainstream media decide to grease the linguistic wheels of this insidious effort, who is going to be able to stop it? Is it really a good thing, for the distinction between those who stand for what is right and just in this country, and those who do not, to be transcended at last?

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/valois/070206


330 posted on 02/06/2007 1:58:11 PM PST by EternalVigilance (With Republicans like these, who needs Democrats?)
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To: ElkGroveDan

“Murder and graffiti are two vastly different crimes,” Rudy Giuliani once said. “But they are part of the same continuum, and a climate that tolerates one is more likely to tolerate the other.”


Does this mean he'll take away my spray paint and my guns?



I love the way Rudy fans have checked their priciples at the door.



As far as I'm concerned, if you vote for Rudy, you can NO LONGER consider yourselves CONSERVATIVES.


331 posted on 02/06/2007 2:00:05 PM PST by wolfcreek (Please Lord, May I be, one who sees what's in front of me.)
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To: EternalVigilance
Pro-abort politicians, and folks like you, have been complicit in more brutal deaths of Americans than any Iranian ever dreamed of having the power to commit. The total is now about 50 million dead, in fact. I guess you guys are shooting for 100 million, eh?

Good point. Most other issues are trivial in comparison. In addition to being morally reprehensible, Roe is simply bad law.

332 posted on 02/06/2007 2:00:14 PM PST by TUAN_JIM (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: wouldntbprudent; Extremely Extreme Extremist
Conclusion: A President has no impact on social policy.

Except for judicial nominations, which the president barely has any impact on either, you are exactly correct.

Who makes Executive Orders? Who is the most powerful lobbyist? Who signs or vetos bills? Who leads one of the two parties? Who sets policy for the entire Executive Branch, including the military? Who can speak (or remain silent) from the Oval Office?

333 posted on 02/06/2007 2:00:51 PM PST by unspun (What do you think? Please think, before you answer.)
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To: airborne; areafiftyone
I will support Rudy in 2008, because the country is at war, we are facing an insidious threat, and it is imperative that we defeat it. No Dem recognizes this, and there is no other Republican WHO CAN WIN the general election.

To my good friends here, who feel they cannot support Rudy because of positions he has taken on the issues important to social conservatives, specifically abortion and gay marriage..while I completely agree with your views on these issues, I would suggest to you that it will be a little difficult to hold next year's massive pro-life demonstration in DC if the mall is contaminated by a dirty bomb. It will be hard to demonstrate against the UN, if all of mid-town Manhattan is contaminated in a NBC attack.

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus in order to preserve the Union. FDR rounded up American citizens of Japanese ancestry because of fear of terrorism. We won those battles, then the wars, and THEN we fixed the mistakes we made. But the nation still existed, imperfect, yes; but still far better than any other place on earth.

People, the terror, the enemy we are facing..the threat to our way of life, our very existence, well, nothing is more important than that. We can't fight that kind of a two-front war...for now.

Rudy has all but said that in looking to appoint justices like Scalia and Roberts...he will not be advancing any liberal social agenda through the courts.

For Republicans, there really is no other choice.

334 posted on 02/06/2007 2:01:14 PM PST by ken5050
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To: Lizarde

He did say it was early and the conservation jumped around, but at the end Delay said because Giuliani was pro-abortion he was unacceptable.


335 posted on 02/06/2007 2:01:26 PM PST by garv (Conservatism in '08 www.draftnewt.org)
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To: hellbender

I agree with you on the administration's immigration policy, which has been a disaster.


336 posted on 02/06/2007 2:01:41 PM PST by WillT
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
The GOP would nominate Hitler if they thought he could win

I'm hoping you just left off the /s tag.

Even so, that's pretty dumb /s. In fact, I find your comment outrageous. You have just accused your (supposedly) fellow Republicans of a very big offense, and that without grounds at all.

Take it back, please.

337 posted on 02/06/2007 2:03:26 PM PST by wouldntbprudent (If you can: Contribute more (babies) to the next generation of God-fearing American Patriots!)
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To: Peach
"Achieving Socially Conservative Ideals Through Liberal Means"

Hello!? Didn't we just go through 6 years of that already?

338 posted on 02/06/2007 2:04:10 PM PST by GunRunner
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To: hellbender

Of course morality is inextricably intertwined with all we do. But to eliminate the practical political consequences of voting in a secular system of government in favor of purely moral principles serves neither politics nor morality.


339 posted on 02/06/2007 2:05:26 PM PST by wouldntbprudent (If you can: Contribute more (babies) to the next generation of God-fearing American Patriots!)
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To: wouldntbprudent; flashbunny; Pistolshot; HuntsvilleTxVeteran; Redbob; dmw; TracyTucson; ...
And here's the new ad campaign: Join the Party of One!!

I have a better idea. Why don't we get Hillary to re-register as a Republican. That way, all the Commies, Dems and Libs will vote for her because they love her policies, but at the same time you and all your other pals who want to "just win" will support her as well since she'll be the "Republican with the best chance of winning!." Everybody wins!

340 posted on 02/06/2007 2:05:41 PM PST by ElkGroveDan (When toilet paper is a luxury, you have achieved communism.)
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