Troops Flee From Border Outpost(Unarmed National Guard)

The Washington Times ^ | January 6, 2007 | Jerry Seper

[kellynla]

Armed men overran a National Guard observation post along the U.S.-Mexico border in Arizona this week, forcing the soldiers to retreat and prompting an investigation by the U.S. Border Patrol that has focused on the intruders' identity. No shots were exchanged and no one was injured in the incident, which occurred shortly after 11 p.m. on Wednesday. The National Guard troops were members of an entry-identification team, assigned to monitor major illegal-alien and drug-smuggling corridors. After forcing the soldiers to flee, the unidentified men retreated into Mexico. National Guard Sgt. Edward Balaban said the troops did not know how many men were involved in the attack "because obviously it took place in the dark." He said National Guard officials are investigating the incident and will determine shortly whether to change any procedures for troops at the border.

[El Gato]

We send National Guard troops to help the border patrol and defend the border - but we give them no powers to do anything and no weapons.

Weapons they've got, powers they don't.

[El Gato]

Reminds me of US Marines in Beruit, 1983.

Same same.

[do the dhue]

"change any procedures for troops at the border'

Now, I aint never been to Harvard, Princeton, or Yale, so I aint no genius Gump, but here is and idear:

How's about givin' our troops guns with bullets in them?

How about giving out Troops the power to call in an air strike or artillery? How's about a lil' help from a AC-130 Gunship? I've always said that napalm smells good in the morning or evening.

These people want to show force, I think we can play at that game.

[El Gato]

They test the will and if they see us running, they're going to become more emboldened and start opening fire or even outright invade.

That could be interesting. As I understand it, the ROE does allow for returning fire. Might be good to get them a few more magazines of ammo though.

[do the dhue]

returning fire

I'd drop a Daisy Cutter. Just to show the next fool what his fate will be.

[El Gato]

No, they weren't overrun, they had to RETREAT because guys with M-16s were approaching them

You own quote says the NG had M-16s, not the intruders. The intruders reportedly had AKs. Just like in the Sandbox.

[El Gato]

Bush sent them there unarmed...

They were not unarmed. They just had stupid orders. You don't think they enjoyed retreating in the face of a small number of AK armed thugs do you?

I want to know who gave the order to retreat.

[El Gato]

Send some Delta operators down there with open rules of engagement and see how many more times these druggies come across.

No need for that, just get some western state guardsmen and turn 'em loose.

[El Gato]

How's about givin' our troops guns with bullets in them?

Those they've got. But are "strongly discouraged" from using them to say, Guard the country.

How about giving out Troops the power to call in an air strike or artillery? How's about a lil' help from a AC-130 Gunship? I've always said that napalm smells good in the morning or evening.

We destroyed all our Napalm some time ago, under Clinton IIRC, but maybe earlier. If the proper arrangement were made, they could have a flight or two of A-10s on call from nearby Davis-Monthan AFB at Tuscon.

[Basheva]

The article says that they were unarmed.

That means no weapons and/or ammo.

[dvan]

That's just great! We send them to Iraq and allow them to defend themselves against insurgents. But they can't do the same here in the U.S.?

[Sir Gawain]

Thank God Pelosi's here. She'll fix this.

Although I doubt she will fix it, Pelosi isn't the Commander in Chief that sent them there unarmed.

[Wallace T.]

The fate of several Marines in Iraq who have been accused of shooting enemy combatants and will be subjected to Star Chamber type proceedings by military courts may well be a factor in the actions of National Guardsmen on our southern border. Additionally, the 20 year sentences imposed on Border Patrol agents recently for actions against drug runners must also be considered. If fighting back will subject military and police officers to court martial and/or long prison terms, it is understandable that they will back down from confrontations.

Unless the conservatives in Congress and talk radio holler loud enough and forcefully enough on the hamstringing of the military and the Border Patrol, in both the Middle East and the border with Mexico, we will lose our influence overseas and maybe even American control of the Southwestern states in the long term. Limited war and measured responses failed in Korea and Vietnam. The elder President Bush restrained General Schwarzkopf from taking Baghdad at a time when our military capacity was greater than it is now, due to the Reagan buildup in 1991. Bush's reward for his restraint was an assassination attempt in 1993 sponsored by Saddam Hussein.

There is no substitute for victory.

[dvan]

This is absolutely terrible! Why doesn't Mexico implement Gun Control over there?

[Gritty]

When I made my tongue-in-cheek comment in Post #47, I had no idea it was true...

Volunteers 'with heat' to support National Guard

[Dustbunny]

Ditto to all of that

[Stultis]

The National Guard was intentionally sent to the border without weapons at the ready

These particular guards DID have weapons, and permission to use them in necessity. They retreated, and called in nearby border patrol, because they were manning an observation post and were under orders not to be detected. Of course I realize that these facts don't fit the "let's remain in a constant state of xenophobic panic" template that has overtaken FR lately, and so will likely be ignored.

[do the dhue]

We need to start making napalm again then. I say call the AC-130s once and you will never have to call them again.

[Stultis]

Unarmed !

They weren't unarmed. They had M-16s. You've succumbed to the "spin" created by kellynla (and by the W. Times reporter as well) in implicitly connecting unrelated quotes from the article. See the link post by Yoe in #12.

[La Enchiladita]

I believe these troops were indeed carrying loaded M-16s. Rules of Engagement are such that they were not authorized to use their weapons under these circumstances.

Thanks, HiJinx. There are contradictory reports going around on this. I'm going to go with your report, unless and until we learn differently.

I also understand, from a report that quoted a NG Major, that the NG calls in BP when they spot aliens but otherwise they are allowed to defend themselves. I would take that to mean they could return fire if fired upon.