Posted on 01/01/2007 10:44:24 AM PST by Uncledave
An oil and security task force of the Council on Foreign Relations recently opined that "the voices that espouse 'energy independence' are doing the nation a disservice by focusing on a goal that is unachievable over the foreseeable future." Others have also said, essentially, that other nations will control our transportation fuel--get used to it. Yet House Democrats have announced a push for "energy independence in 10 years," and in November General Motors joined Toyota and perhaps other auto makers in a race to produce plug-in hybrid vehicles, hugely reducing the demand for oil. Who's right--those who drive toward independence or those who shrug?
Bet on major progress toward independence, spurred by market forces and a portfolio of rapidly developing oil-replacing technologies.
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All this is likely to change decisively, because electricity is about to become a major partner with alternative liquid fuels in replacing oil.
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Utilities are rapidly becoming quite interested in plug-ins because of the substantial benefit to them of being able to sell off-peak power at night. Because off-peak nighttime charging uses unutilized capacity, DOE's Pacific Northwest National Laboratory estimates that adopting plug-ins will not create a need for new base load electricity generation plants until plug-ins constitute over 84% of the country's 220 million passenger vehicles.
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Once plug-ins start appearing in showrooms it is not only consumers and utility shareholders who will be smiling. If cheap off-peak electricity supplies a portion of our transportation needs, this will help insulate alternative liquid fuels from OPEC market manipulation designed to cripple oil's competitors.
(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...
Or the same crowd that wants me to drive a little beep-beep car can be told to go pack sand and we can drill domestically. The Arabs will have oil they cannot sell and we can buy it if they lower the price enough and we feel friendly that day.
What are the Arabs going to do? Sell sandles made from old car tires? They produce oil and terror, nothing else. Domestic production will turn off the money valve and they will be at our mercy or we can drive three wheel cars made by Makita.
Seems like a simple choice for me.
They are talking about a "hybrid" that plugs in to charge when you aren't using it.
These cars would have a small gas/diesel engine for power when the battery is low when you are using it.
That is 27 HP MAX
WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.
27 HP is the average needed to overcome drag at about 65 mph. And that has nothing to do with whether the car is electric or a simple gasoline powered car. Both require about the same hp. Interestingly, a Corvette, because of its sleek design, only needs about 11.8 hp to overcome drag at 65 mph.
Now of course you're wondering why it is many cars have such powerful engines. Well, it's not to overcome drag. It's to improve acceleration. And there's nothing that says a plugin can't have a 150 hp engine.
You'll find a 30 mpg Gasoline powered crapbox is still cheaper to operate.
It isn't cheaper. The cost of electrical energy produced by coal fired turbine is cheaper than the cost of mechanical energy delivered by an gasoline IC engine.
LOL....Yes, your off-peak rates are low NOW..wait until you and your neighbors plug in your cars. Ok, fine. Let's accept that supply and demand doesn't apply to electricity in "off-peak" times (even though that's what brings you off-peak rates).....there is the premium cost for the vehicle, the electrical service upgrades, the shoes you'll wear out....all those costs.
You have serious misconceptions about the efficiency of battery powered electric versus a gasoline powered vehicle. We'll ignore that, though.
Ok, let's talk plug-in hybrids. A gas-powered generator is ideal, because it is such an efficient and energy packed power source. It's even ideal for powering a vehicle.
...but I wonder how much better mileage your hybrid would get if you yanked out all the batteries? Fact is, government subsidies and special treatment on HOV lanes sold hybrids as much as any efficiency savings.
Hey, for a 25 mile commute, a plug-in might work for you. So would a moped.
Nonsense.
Drill.
I have worked around cars my whole life, from classic muscle cars to modern high performance cars. A plug-in hybrid would be great to have.
It's when idiots that don't know the first thing about how a car works or the amount of energy required to move one start talking about "500 mpg" that my guts churn.
Almost as much as the idiots who say "Hydrogen comes from Water"
Well, why don't you just tell me where is it you think I went wrong? I'm an engineer, too, always willing to learn.
Yes! And remember that the GOVERNMENT controls the number of power plants in existence. The GOVERNMENT controls the electrical grid. The GOVERNMENT controls the rates charged by the utilities.
This is nothing more than another power grab by the liberals.
If they can't get you to use mass transit, they will get you to depend on government for the fuel to transport yourself.
I am all for reducing our dependence on foreign oil. However, empowering Pelosi and Kennedy is not the answer.
Two shirts and a pop tart? Save the planet, eat the pop tart. LOL.
"with current solar panel technology she could get'r done for about $60K"
She'll need approximately 100 square meters of uninterrupted sunshine on a set of collectors to fill up an emasculated vehicle on electricity in a day. That'll cost a bit more than $60k, I think. If she doesn't mind waiting a few days to fill'er up, she might be able to use a smaller array.
"What are the Arabs going to do? Sell sandles made from old car tires? They produce oil and terror, nothing else. Domestic production will turn off the money valve and they will be at our mercy or we can drive three wheel cars made by Makita.
Seems like a simple choice for me."
Me Too. It's crazy we do not use our own natural resources.
So we drill here and tell the Arabs to go to hell.
I would pay extra for an American made keyboard, but wouldn't need to as prices would stabilize.
500 mpg sounds great, but what I really want is 500 horsepower! :)
27 HP is the average needed to overcome drag at about 65 mph. And that has nothing to do with whether the car is electric or a simple gasoline powered car. Both require about the same hp. Interestingly, a Corvette, because of its sleek design, only needs about 11.8 hp to overcome drag at 65 mph.
Now of course you're wondering why it is many cars have such powerful engines. Well, it's not to overcome drag. It's to improve acceleration. And there's nothing that says a plugin can't have a 150 hp engine.
Dude, go to your Link again and Ask yourself "where does the 300 watt hr/mile from the calculator come from"
The answer is, "it comes from Here "
Where you will see that 300 watt-hr/mile is for a MASSIVE 20 hp motor (7 hp nominal).
I'm sorry, but on this planet, I will not be driving a 20 HP car to work anytime soon (unless, no matter how "cheap" it is to operate.
"Well, why don't you just tell me where is it you think I went wrong? I'm an engineer, too, always willing to learn."
Here's a fun statistic that makes the point: the equivalent energy of 15 gallons of gas is about 550 kWh.
Standard electrical plugs provide 120volts at 15 amps, or 1.8kWh
So it would take 12.7 days to recharge a vehicle that was equivalent to todays vehicle with a standard electrical outlet.
hey! You are the one who said I misapplied thermo......teach me, I'm willing to learn, too.
"500 mpg sounds great, but what I really want is 500 horsepower! :)"
I say you should get BOTH.
>And remember that the GOVERNMENT controls the number of power plants in existence.
And they do not control the number of oil refineries?
>The GOVERNMENT controls the electrical grid. The GOVERNMENT controls the rates charged by the utilities.
And they do not control the roads and gas taxes??
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