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The war for civilization
Toronto Sun ^ | 2006-12-30 | Salim Mansur

Posted on 12/30/2006 3:57:46 AM PST by Clive

Those who may share U.S. President George Bush's anguish in these recurrent winters of our discontent are not many.

It is easy to describe Bush as a beleaguered president in a war that a majority of Americans now question as the November mid-term election demonstrated. They want an end to the war in Iraq without having to admit defeat.

The agony of Bush is compounded by his knowledge of the enemy.

That and the constraints placed, in a free society within the context of our integrated world, on his office and its ability to wage the sort of war necessary to defeat the enemy.

U.S. presidents Lincoln, Roosevelt and Truman were also reviled in their times and during their respective winters of discontent.

But their circumstances in defeating the enemies of freedom were much different, and less onerous than those Bush has to contend with.

The Confederates were slave-holders, bent on destroying the American Union, rather than give freedom to their slaves.

Despite doubts about Lincoln during the worst months of the long Civil War, the enemy was clearly visible and victory was precisely defined as saving the Union and crushing the Confederacy.

Similarly, Roosevelt and Truman fought the fascist and militarist powers of Germany and Japan who were on a rampage across the world.

Even in the darkest moments of World War II their political opponents could not, dared not, publicly doubt the objective of securing the unconditional surrender of these enemies.

But the enemy Bush is contending with -- while a majority of Americans and America's allies pretend it doesn't exist -- is not merely an alliance of states or a mix of ideologies or a cause that the United States must fight and defeat.

ATAVISTIC IDEAS

The current enemy is the outcrop of a broken civilization of the past, spewing forth from its rotting bowels an endless horde of militants and fellow-travellers, carrying with them the most atavistic ideas about faith and politics that modern civilization, which Bush represents, hesitates to name for what it is.

We have to go back to the declining years of the Roman Empire to find a parallel with our times. Rome had spread civilization far and wide around the Mediterranean basin, but over time it became besieged by barbarians from outside its frontiers and then from within.

Civilization is more supple, hence fragile, than the iron and steel from which it is built. It might be likened to a garden, delicately laid out and carefully maintained.

When ignored or unattended, weeds destroy what human artifice builds with much labour.

Over time, people take their civilization for granted, become careless and unwilling to bear the burden of protecting it. Then its defences are breached, as Rome was, and the city is overrun by those who envy or loathe civilization, bringing ruin in their wake.

Radical Islamism and Islamist terrorism have already made a wasteland of the greater Middle East. Where once a great Islamic civilization prevailed, now, in its place, there so often thrives a culture of bigotry and tribal violence, with their effects spreading outwards across land and sea.

Rome did not know how to defeat the barbarians before they overran her. Those who endlessly fault Bush for the shape of the world visible since 9/11, will one day cry a river if he and his successors fail to save civilization from its present-day enemies.

Michael Novak, a Catholic theologian and philosopher, named Bush "the bravest president" for staying firm in confronting the contemporary barbarians, despite the venom of his peers.

In the dark winter nights, some of us will have prayers for Bush, knowing the difference between what he represents and those who would prey upon civilization.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: islam; religionofpieces; worldhistory; wot
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To: Erik Latranyi
"Thank you for the non sequiter."

His point is valid.
61 posted on 12/30/2006 10:44:35 AM PST by EnochPowellWasRight
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To: Clive
This article is a slander of the German barbarians, most of whom were morally better than the corrupt Romans they overthrew. Not all, to be sure. But the Romans weren't altar boys.
62 posted on 12/30/2006 10:46:59 AM PST by JasonC
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To: Lurker

"It's akin to calling Nazism a peaceful political philosophy that's been hijacked by a few extremists."Excellent analogy.


63 posted on 12/30/2006 10:51:13 AM PST by Thombo2
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Patan y payaso. How would you like to have your home town, in which you grew up, taken over so completely by a group of foreigners that you don't recognize it? When did we ever get a chance to vote on our communities being overrun with so many poor people from other countries that we have to close the hospitals that our grandfathers founded and supported? The fact of the matter is, our borders need to be secured for reasons of national security, and for reasons of national identity. We cannot accommodate every last Mexican, Latin American, Eastern European and Asian who wants to come here and take advantage, let alone the Muslims who want to come here and overthrow our government. And don't play your ethnic BS card with me, I am Hispanic.


64 posted on 12/30/2006 11:05:44 AM PST by 3AngelaD (ic.)
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To: 3AngelaD
"The fact of the matter is, our borders need to be secured for reasons of national security, and for reasons of national identity. We cannot accommodate every last Mexican, Latin American, Eastern European and Asian who wants to come here and take advantage, let alone the Muslims who want to come here and overthrow our government."

Right on the mark, Angela. A clear majority of Americans agree with you.

65 posted on 12/30/2006 11:15:43 AM PST by Czar ( StillFedUptotheTeeth@Washington)
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To: Lurker
"Until our government starts calling evil by its right name we have no chance of winning or even of surviving."

Bump, our so called "brave" leader does not even have the courage to speak the enemies name.

66 posted on 12/30/2006 11:24:55 AM PST by jpsb
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To: Luis Gonzalez
The threat from Islamic terrorists is real and must be resisted. So is the threat from open borders and uncontrolled immigration from Mexico. They are related but distinct.

Hopefully we can fight both fights at the same time. But the external Islamic threat will not destroy us as a country, while the internal threat from Mexican/Aztlan threat will destroy us in short order and for all time. If we have to chose which fight to fight, then we must control our border with Mexico and leave the terrorists to another day.
67 posted on 12/30/2006 11:30:00 AM PST by Iwo Jima ("Close the border. Then we'll talk.")
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To: Lurker
Commentary is protein rich, eloquently stated, and but for minor and irrelevant points (re the Civil War and the glorious Islamic civilization) it perfectly reflects my own perspective on the peril we are facing---and refusing to face.

And thank you Lurker for adding your wisdom, especially this:
We're engaged in a war with several foreign governments who have made a conscious decision to use terrorism as a tactic of asymmetrical warfare.

I would add that more will soon jump on the bandwagon, due to the moral feebleness of our response.
I'm not referring to our actions against Iraq and Afghanistan, for these were appropriate. But they needed to be followed with other similar actions, and the courage of our convictions.
That said, George W. Bush is the president, not the king of America. I feel he went as far as he thought he could, and if he lacks allies in our own legislature, not to mention some outright enemies, who can doubt he tried his best to turn them around?

68 posted on 12/30/2006 11:51:24 AM PST by Graymatter
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To: Clive
Believe it or not, there are those more afraid of Walmart than terrorists.
69 posted on 12/30/2006 4:04:29 PM PST by DaoPian
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I have an identifiable point and a solid argument

That's what Ted Kazinski said, too.

I can't however, make you understand them.

Thankfully, this is true. I have no wish to 'understand' the babblings of fools.

L

70 posted on 12/30/2006 4:14:32 PM PST by Lurker (History's most dangerous force is government and the crime syndicates that grow with it.)
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To: Lurker

So, you're already into the insults?

Patton, whom you brought up, identified the enemy (Russia), had a plan, was a formidable warrior, and was capable of ending the Russian threat at the end of WWII.

How did his invasion of Russia go?


71 posted on 12/30/2006 8:32:23 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Iwo Jima

The threat from Islam posses a clear and present danger unlike any we've seen in nearly half a century. Next to it, Mexicans crossing the borders is nothing.

As a matter of fact, if I remember my history correctly, the last time American men had to go fight Fascism abroad, we used Mexico to supply us with labor to replace them.


72 posted on 12/30/2006 8:35:17 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: EnochPowellWasRight

If Europe falls to Islam, as it now appears that it will, what use will secure borders and less Mexicans do for us?

Do we then count on China and Russia to help us?

Or will they look to destroy us before facing their own Islamic threat?

With Islamofascism controlling European markets, where do we sell our goods?

If you truly believe that a relatively small number of Mexican peons can bring about the fall of this country from the world's sole hegemony to the status of a Third World nation by their mere presence here, then you can't possibly believe that we can defeat anyone or anything anywhere.


73 posted on 12/30/2006 8:56:56 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Iwo Jima
"But the external Islamic threat will not destroy us as a country."

They control one continent, most of the Middle East, and are now well on their way on their conquest of Europe.

Open your eyes.

74 posted on 12/30/2006 8:58:21 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"If Europe falls to Islam, as it now appears that it will, what use will secure borders and less Mexicans do for us? "

Let's see:

(1) fewer Muslim infils crossing said frontier
(2) less money spent supporting illegals. We can't afford that and if this war gets hotter, we'll be able to afford it even less in the future.
(3) removes one vector for social unrest and crime.

In short, it must be done AS PART of the war.

"Do we then count on China and Russia to help us? "

Help us with what?

"With Islamofascism controlling European markets, where do we sell our goods? "

If Islamofascism controls Europe, commerce will be the LEAST of our problems. We'll be in a massive world war.

"If you truly believe that a relatively small number of Mexican peons can bring about the fall of this country from the world's sole hegemony to the status of a Third World nation by their mere presence here, then you can't possibly believe that we can defeat anyone or anything anywhere."

Two points here:

(1) 50 million people is not "small". In fact, that's a voting block likely to vote themselves more benefits from the public trough that we CAN'T afford. I find the statements of Jeb's son disturbing towards that end.

(2) If we are too afraid of offending these "peons" (your word) being offended by the enforcement of the laws they have broken, then we do NOT then have the intestinal fortitude to combat Islam and save the West.
75 posted on 12/30/2006 9:17:41 PM PST by EnochPowellWasRight
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To: EnochPowellWasRight
"less money spent supporting illegals"

Illegals are dumping @$7 billion dollars per year into the Federal coffers, and that's just in unclaimed, untraceable social security payments.

That's not a good argument.

76 posted on 12/30/2006 9:24:24 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: EnochPowellWasRight

Bring back the Bracero program, it worked in our favor during WWII, and was dismantled by the Unions.


77 posted on 12/30/2006 9:25:44 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

"Illegals are dumping @$7 billion dollars per year into the Federal coffers, and that's just in unclaimed, untraceable social security payments."

However, they are consuming upwards of $20 billion in services and increasing our crime rates. Uncontrolled movement over our borders is also a security threat.

"That's not a good argument."

Your data is incomplete.


78 posted on 12/30/2006 9:28:05 PM PST by EnochPowellWasRight
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"Bring back the Bracero program, it worked in our favor during WWII, and was dismantled by the Unions. "

Guest workers don't leave. We didn't have the welfare programs we have now. We didn't have the "free" education and healthcare we don now.
79 posted on 12/30/2006 9:29:01 PM PST by EnochPowellWasRight
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To: EnochPowellWasRight

Before you enter into this discussion with me, you need to examine historical data and not just post unsubstantiated suppositions.

In fact, guest workers DO leave, as the Bracero program proved.

People entering the country illegally don't leave for fear of not being able to re-enter.


80 posted on 12/30/2006 9:33:44 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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