Posted on 12/17/2006 3:43:18 PM PST by ConservativeMan55
One climber found dead on Mt. Hood
"Innuendo, huh Fanny."
Wrong poster. I'd say you're the one doing the drinking....or bonging.
"Pour a little more courage, eh."
Me thinks thou is a pot-banger calling the kettle black.
So, why aren't you up there helping in the rescue......?
Newbie. ;-)
Wherever did you get that idea?
Maybe I posted it to the wrong person. See #408, 421 and 434.
You still don't get it and you never will.
You seem to think this climb was an ordinary activity done daily all over the country like baking cookies or going to the bank?
Why was the runaway bride billed?
Why are other people rescued in certain situations billed?
It's always a case of, "Because they should have known better." We have laws and rules that we follow to prevent accidents and environmental damage and plane crashes, and so on. We pay tax money for this and we pay privately for it as well. The point of most of that is safety. When someone CHOOSES to undertake an extremely risky adventure that is wholly unnecessary, they should be prepared to pay at least some of the costs associated with their rescue. Many public resources charge fees for service. Do you need a copy of your birth certificate? Send the government agency the money. Do you want to visit a state museum? Pay the admission charge. Nothing is "free."
You can't have it both ways, sis, or don't you believe in equality?
If I am not mistaken a person does pay for the fire department. Actually, your insurance does. In fact, it is my understanding that to garner more funds the fire department is dispatched to car accidents under the guise of safety but you will be billed.
Actually, if you would bother to educate yourself (but it would take time away from your preaching), you might find that there are climbers on most big mountains four seasons a year.
How do you think the search and rescue and the military climbers learned to perfect their craft? Is there a secret mountain where they train?
Don't bother answering, I'm quite tired of you MS. Know-it-all. Go have your nightcap-you've earned it.
"the poster who said the entire rescue mission is being done by volunteers and there is no public cost is wrong."
Go back and read my posts. I said that "mountain rescue" is entirely volunteer. I made the distinction time and time again between "mountain rescue" with boots on the mountain and support teams such as the Hood Sheriff's Office and (in this case) the National Guard (in helicopters and C-130s).
Now, as it turns out there have been some military SAR teams added to this particular effort. But normally Mt. Hood SAR relies on the voluntary efforts of the Crag Rats, Portland Mountain Rescue, and similar 501(c)3 teams.
Please stop mischaracterizing what I've said.
LisaMalia has been more than patient with your nasty insults and petty word games. You need some real serious help - a lot more than working out.
Your "serious" condition is obviously some form of mental illness.
If somebody doesn't agree with you, you just start insulting them and playing child's games with them.
You're no athlete, kayaker, climber, or any of that other crap you laid out. You're just another internet liar, plain and simple, no substance, no truth. Your type is a dime -a-dozen.
Not a bad idea. It would certainly make people like you more tolerable. But you and your cohort seem to be way ahead of me when it comes to cocktails, so it would take a long time to catch up to your levels of intoxication. I'm just not that thirsty.
But while you're still sober enough to type, clarify your thinking for me, please. You're saying that this was all a good thing because it's good practice for our military people?
"what volunteer means when they have use of military helicopters, etc"
Think of it in concrete, literalist terms.
Those SAR participants whose feet are actually touching the snow on Mt. Hood are non-paid volunteers who belong to self-funded, non-profit 501(c)3 mountain rescue organizations (there was one Special Forces SAR team which wanted to participate but I'm not sure they ever went up).
They don't get paid, they don't accept public funds, they don't bill anyone. They operate like any 501(c)3 organization, on the basis of donations (including their own). That's why they are "volunteers".
Helicopter pilots are not "on the mountain". They do not wear crampons and carry ice axes. They don't offer belays. They don't set climbing anchors. They are not "mountain rescue". They are not volunteers.
Same thing applies to the National Guard support personnel and the Hood County Sheriff's Office. Not "mountain rescue", not "volunteers".
Do you see the distinction?
Apparently, this is the post that got everyone riled, including me. From the way you stated your response makes it "appear" to be a volunteers and the assumption is all others are being paid wages anyway. The paragraph that was confusing to me was "Same thing applies to the National Guard. . ." I think it was just not very clear because of your defense of the volunteers. Apparently, you do agree the taxpayers are paying something beyond simple wages. And, I believe these expenses should be paid by the risk taker.
I do not intentionally mischaracterize anybody's words. If I did, you have my apology.
What I read you saying through several posts with another person was that the actual rescue mission was strictly a private, voluntary effor and you made that point by explaining about the rescue teams being privately funded and them also being the only boots on the ground. My point was that public assets are being expended, even though there were no public employee or military boots on the ground (now you say you've learned there are, but that wasn't known then so that's fine). The subject was the cost and whether there should be reimbursement. Somebody else porposed a rather convoluted up-front payment system, but that wasn't I, if you were thinking it was. I don't take the view that without reimbursement there should be no rescue, and I haven't seen anyone else say that, although I haven't read every post by every poster. If the climbers didn't have two nickels to rub together, I would still want them to be rescued. But I do think it was foolish for them to go up there at this time. The fact that at least one is dead seems to prove the accuracy of this view, and it's one shared by many. I simply was pointing out that the rescue undertaking is not without financial cost to the taxpayers, and if some reimbursement can be made, it should.
Conservatives usually know that nothing is free whether the government provides it or not.
And one more time with feeling, the cost of the rescue mission, both private and public, is not and has not been my main concern about this tragedy.
Yes, that was the post.
The difference between my confusion and snooper's, though, came mostly from these two paragraphs - "Those SAR participants whose feet are actually touching the snow on Mt. Hood are non-paid volunteers who belong to self-funded, non-profit 501(c)3 mountain rescue organizations (there was one Special Forces SAR team which wanted to participate but I'm not sure they ever went up)." AND - "Helicopter pilots are not "on the mountain". They do not wear crampons and carry ice axes. They don't offer belays. They don't set climbing anchors. They are not "mountain rescue". They are not volunteers."
But the new explanation has clarified what angkor actually meant.
Yes, that was the beginning of my confusion also. It was so carefully worded such as "boots on the ground," type of statements which were too specific and yet knowing what was going on (I immediately thought how did those boots get on the ground) so it was too general if you can get my drift. Oh well, it is all over and we all had a good say. LOL
http://www.pmru.org/aboutpmr/whatispmr.html
Funding: [Portland Mountain Rescue] is a non-profit, volunteer organization. All funding is derived from individual donations, grants and other types of fundraising. We do not receive financial support from the government. Team members do not receive compensation for their work and are not reimbursed for their expenses whatsoever. Our members spend countless hours of their free time - and occasionally their work time - training and learning so that they will be ready to respond to a search and rescue operation on a moment's notice. [emphasis original]
http://www.cragrats.org/
"Founded in 1926, the Crag Rats is the oldest mountain search and rescue organization in the United States. Based in Oregon's Hood River Valley, the all-volunteer Rats conduct operations on Mount Hood as well as the Columbia River Gorge and surrounding areas." [emphasis added]
http://www.cmru.peak.org/about_cmru.htm
"Corvallis Mountain Rescue Unit offers assistance, without charge, for search and rescue (SAR) in difficult areas and high-angle terrain. Skilled CMRU volunteers with mountaineering experience, trained in the many facets of technical alpine search and rescue, are available around the clock." [emphasis added]
http://www.co.clackamas.or.us/sheriff/divisions/sar.htm
"Volunteers are critical to the success of SAR missions. The [Clackamas County] Sheriff's Office relies heavily on the expertise and dedication of volunteers. Resource groups who hike, man-track, snowmobile, climb, ride horses, fly airplanes and helicopters (military personnel), create radio communications systems and the like bring knowledge and skill to these missions. Thousands of hours of training and actual field missions are given freely by community members dedicated to helping people." [emphasis added]
That would be me. I did say and I still say that in these type of excursions I do believe either a waiver for rescue, a commitment by someone to pay the rescue or a rescue fee should be put forth before this type of activity is begun. These are rescues that are outside of the normal type of rescuses which I can't think of any that are not billed. ER is billed, fire department is billed, etc. The only other ones I can think of, and there are probably more, not billed are Coast Guard for boats, sailing, etc. Since it seems to be appropriate for many other risky type of lifestyles to be charged more (such as smoking) it seems only right that these risk takers pay their share also. My real feeling on all of this is LEAVE THE PEOPLE ALONE AND SCREW THE LIFESTYLE THING--we all feed at the Government Trouth. But many right here on FR are NANNYs and deny their free meals at the government trouth. I bet most of these activities (which require free rescue) are enjoyed by those people who can afford to purchase the expensive equipment.
I've come to believe that we're dealing with an obsessive-compulsive case here.
Time to let this thread die.
"I do think it was foolish for them to go up there at this time. The fact that at least one is dead seems to prove the accuracy of this view
Oh where to start.
Magnificent.
WOW!
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