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Falling prices trap new homebuyers
The Orange County Register ^ | December 13, 2006 | JEFF COLLINS

Posted on 12/13/2006 4:40:07 AM PST by GodGunsGuts

Wednesday, December 13, 2006

Falling prices trap new homebuyers

Neighbors in a new Garden Grove tract say a developer's plan to slash prices by about $140,000 has left them owing more for their homes than they're now worth.

By JEFF COLLINS

The Orange County Register

(Excerpt) Read more at ocregister.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bubble; depression; despair; doom; dustbowl; grapesofwrath; housing; housingbubble; iluvwilliegreen; imtomjoad; prop13rules; realestate; schadenfreude; wearealltoast
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To: ladyjane
I think the Bay area has a form of rent control so only the least desirable units get advertised.

Only in certain buildings within the cities of San Francisco and Berkeley. All of the newer mid- and high-rise buildings downtown are not subject to rent control (and there are a lot of them), and it doesn't exist anywhere else in the Bay Area. The advertised listings are market-priced units.

161 posted on 12/13/2006 6:55:22 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves ("When the government is invasive, the people are wanting." -- Tao Te Ching)
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To: montag813

I've seen that too. Scumbags.

I have NO problem with legitimate flippers. If they really fix the house, and sell it at a price other repaired homes are going for, fine.


162 posted on 12/13/2006 6:55:51 AM PST by RockinRight (Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. He's a Socialist. And unqualified.)
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To: pfony1

I was using Japan to illustrate that there are situations in which demand so evaporates that lowering rates becomes the equivalent of pushing on a string.


163 posted on 12/13/2006 6:56:55 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: BubbaHeel

Pretty much.

Negative-amortization loans. The payment doesn't even cover the interest at first, but increases for 5 years, then BAM you start paying principal and the payment doubles.

These loans have existed for years but only in specialty markets. The idea was that the borrower could still afford a traditional payment but wanted a temporary respite to invest the money elsewhere or something. But when Joe Six-Pack was using these loans as the ONLY WAY they could afford the house, it's a problem.


164 posted on 12/13/2006 6:57:45 AM PST by RockinRight (Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. He's a Socialist. And unqualified.)
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To: finnman69

That's true. Homes in hot markets have reached the limits of affordability. However, my point is that falling interest rates make a widespread real estate crash less likely.


165 posted on 12/13/2006 6:58:13 AM PST by Moonman62 (The issue of whether cheap labor makes America great should have been settled by the Civil War.)
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To: bondjamesbond
What your home is worth today is irrelevant unless you sell it today.

Its worth seems to matter a great deal to the county tax assessor and I have to pay him what he says.

166 posted on 12/13/2006 6:58:58 AM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: DH

Bump. Good analysis.


167 posted on 12/13/2006 6:59:14 AM PST by jammer
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To: pfony1

And btw, we are also starting to push on a string here in the USA.


168 posted on 12/13/2006 7:00:57 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
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To: NCLaw441

Exactly. The best financial advice came from Dickens' Mr. Micawber (if only he had followed it himself...):

""Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery."


169 posted on 12/13/2006 7:01:41 AM PST by linda_22003
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To: Uncle Ike

Could happen. I'm covered as are my family members. God alone knows about my neighbors, many of whom bought into the area at price points that are a multiple of what we paid. I know a few that are just getting by now, with both working. I'm sure that some banks are going to take a hit.


170 posted on 12/13/2006 7:01:51 AM PST by wtc911 (You can't get there from here)
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To: GodGunsGuts; Enterprise
There are large tax disadvanges to buying in California. Because of Proposition 13, it is common for new buyers to pay ten times the property tax that their neighbors pay.

There will be more squawking by the anti-Proposition 13 forces as the housing market continues to crash in our fair state. Whine, pule and sob, its just not fair!!. Well, hard cheese, newbie homeowners. You just paid a half million for a house that your neighbor paid 100 thousand for a few years back.

Base on what YOU paid, you've obviously got plenty of money to pay the ongoing ongoing ongoing tax that is based on YOUR willingly agreed-to purchase price.

Prop 13 drove a permanent knife into the heart of the California librat's tax and spend concept of paying a current "value" tax rate on every asset purchased at some prior time. All praise to Saint Howard Jarvis.
171 posted on 12/13/2006 7:01:59 AM PST by MelonFarmerJ (Proudly voting Republican/conservative in every election since 1964)
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To: hawkaw; GodGunsGuts
Owning is still better than renting ....

not always

here is an example

This 2BR/2BA 1362sf condo is for sale for $1.95M on the UWS of Manhattan overlooking the Hudson River.
http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=919576

Assuming 10% down, Total Monthly Payment of mortgage w/ maintenance and tax abatement is: $12,611 a month. those taxes WILL go up tremendously.

The EXACT same apartment is for rent in the same building for $5,450 a month
http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=919146

So in the rent vs. buy calculation, here it costs 231% more to own than to rent. I have nt taken any tax deductions, but lets assume anyone earning enough to swing this place is getting taxed up the wazzoo.

172 posted on 12/13/2006 7:02:48 AM PST by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestu s globus, inflammare animos)
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To: ladyjane

Any lot with a view will run a minimum of $100K / per half acre these days. No septic, no well, no drive, just a gravel road to get to it.


173 posted on 12/13/2006 7:03:01 AM PST by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: Uncle Ike
And, yes -- remember all those tv ads a few years ago for big mortgages with 'affordable' payments? Low-payment-now with increased-payments-over-time is exactly what they were selling...

Dude, I live in the Bible Belt.

But as heavily regulated as our economy is, it's hard to imagine that this sort of scheme [i.e. non-constant, INCREASING mortgage payments] would be legal in a mommy-state socialist paradise like The People's Republic of California.

On the other hand, traditionally the real estate bidness has been dominated by RAT scum like Mr. Diane Feinstein, and Mr. Geraldine Ferraro, so you can see how the RAT-controlled state [& even federal] legislatures would turn a blind eye to this kinda insanity [and even go so far as to "guarantee" these scams with government-backed insurance policies].

174 posted on 12/13/2006 7:04:05 AM PST by BubbaHeel
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To: BubbaHeel
Are you saying that banks in SoCal were making home mortgages with non-constant monthly payments, i.e. monthly mortgage payments that increased over time?

Well, that's the whole con game being discussed here - people have been getting mortgages with artificially low monthly payments in the first 2-5 years, that "reset" to a higher repayment rate later. It's a way for mortgage companies to keep getting an ever-dwindling supply of new buyers into ever more expensive homes. The idea is that these buyers would refinance later, before the reset or ballon payment was due, or that they would sell the house with a nice equity gain before that time ever came. The other implicit assumption by the lender (almost never borne out in reality) is that the buyer's income would magically go up enough to cover the doubled monthly payments.

It looks like a good gamble if you believe house prices will keep inflating 20% a year, forever, or if you fall for the realtor/lender scare tactics such as: "This could be your last chance to own!!!"

175 posted on 12/13/2006 7:04:11 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves ("When the government is invasive, the people are wanting." -- Tao Te Ching)
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To: Fury

The ones that really get screwed are single homes on acreage and not in a subdivision. Where I used to live, my 2.5 acres was valued at $250K just for the land, let alone the house. And, they tried reassessing every two years like clockwork. How much did the neighboring subdivisions go up? Not much because they were a bigger voting block and tend to rebut in groups, something the assessors can't abide with because of scrutiny from the higher ups. So, what they'd do is try to force acreage owners to sell because of high taxes, and it usually worked. I sold my house for 5 times what it cost me, but the value before sale was $150K less than what it sold for, thanks to constant protesting.


176 posted on 12/13/2006 7:04:27 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: Mr. Jeeves
The advertised listings are market-priced units.

No. They are asking prices of units that have not yet rented.

In a hot market - which sadly used to exist - advertising like that was the last resort.

177 posted on 12/13/2006 7:04:38 AM PST by ladyjane
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To: WesternPacific
Me and my wife have been fortunate in that we have been able to buy and sell in different geographical areas. We have no problem selling high and moving to different parts of the country which we have seen to be better suited to buy and sell.

My best friend retired early and moved to Vegas about 6 years ago. Within 3 years, they flipped their house and doubled what they paid for it. They put it almost all into a nicer, brand-new house in San Antonio, with hopes of doing the same thing. I'm not so sure that will be that easy.

To the people who have been successful with that tactic, I say more power to you for your good timing. The problem is with people who jump on the bandwagon at the wrong time.

Oh well, maybe I'll be able to get a good deal on a second home when I retire next year... ;P

178 posted on 12/13/2006 7:06:29 AM PST by Kenton
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To: BubbaHeel
But as heavily regulated as our economy is, it's hard to imagine that this sort of scheme [i.e. non-constant, INCREASING mortgage payments] would be legal in a mommy-state socialist paradise like The People's Republic of California.

On the contrary - it leads directly to higher property tax revenues. Democrats love it. ;)

179 posted on 12/13/2006 7:06:34 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves ("When the government is invasive, the people are wanting." -- Tao Te Ching)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Because of Proposition 13, it is common for new buyers to pay ten times the property tax that their neighbors pay. Tax rates are set at the time of purchase, which means those who bought long ago pay nearly nothing, and the new buyers pay all property tax for everyone else. Upgrading houses makes you a newcomer all over again.


This only seems unfair if you assume everyones income has kept going up. We purchased our home in 1985 and it is true that we pay less property tax then someone who purchased the same model home across the street in 2006.

The point is, I could not afford to buy my home at today's cost.

I am close to retirement, my home is paid for, my property taxes is a managable $1,200 a year (it does go up a small bit each year). This is one thing that makes retirement possible.

So while it may seem unfair to base property taxes on what someone pays for their homes, it is really the only fair way. Otherwise we would go back to those days, when older retired people would lose their homes of 40 to 50 years because they can no longer pay the property tax, then where are they to live?

180 posted on 12/13/2006 7:09:07 AM PST by CIB-173RDABN
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