Congress Open to Passing Bill on Immigration (Citizenship for 20 million illegals!)

The Washington Times ^ | December 4, 2006 | Charles Hurt

[kellynla]

Congress will approve an immigration bill that will grant citizenship rights to most of the 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens in the U.S. after Democrats take control next month, predict both sides on Capitol Hill. While Republicans have been largely splintered on the issue of immigration reform, Democrats have been fairly unified behind the principle that the illegals currently in the country should get citizenship rights without having to first leave the country.

[Arizona Carolyn]

We didn't lose in November because of being against amnesty; that is a falacy created by Karl Rove. In fact we passed four anti-illegal propositions here in Arizona and JD lost because he got redistricted into the ASU district and was beat by an even stronger anti-illegals candidate that was a popular ex-mayor of Tempe(ASU is in Tempe)...

[Arizona Carolyn]

You are in favor of mass illegal immigration??????

[Luis Gonzalez]

It's illegal to be here illegally kelly...that's your "revelation"?

You're brilliant!

I don't have "amigos" kelly, and what friends I have are not (to the best of my knowledge) illegal aliens. What I do have is an understanding of the entire scope of this issue, and I don't waste my time, like you do, simply pointing to the problem.

I'd like to formulate a solution...a solution, not a slogan.

There are many people benefiting from the presence of illegal aliens in the country--whether you want to admit to it or not, to a degree, you benefit as well--and until the whole issue is dissected, the solution will not be found.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"6000+ illegals cross over a week."

That means that @312,000 illegal aliens entered the country illegally in a year.

OK...let's examine this number no, shall we?

We know...this is documented evidence, that there were 1.2 million people stopped at the border in 2005.

So according to your figures, we are stopping 83% of the people trying to cross the border illegally!

I don't see how you call that an open border policy.

[Gaffer]

"wanting TO STEM the tide of illegals entering into this country" part of what I meant to say was missing...of course not...

[Arizona Carolyn]

Whew, I read and re-read your post and it didn't compute, which is why I asked.

[William Terrell]

If you condone, agree with and celebrate amnesty and citizenship for those who broke into the country, you are against secured borders. I read a lot of what you write on the subject.

Do share. What is the WHOLE picture?

Illegal aliens are exploited by consumers for cheap services, politician for votes, donations and support, and industry for cheap labor; it's always been that way, and it will always be that way.

An excellent argument to cleanse the nation of illegal aliens and police the border in ways that will let no others in.

Now, I am here, and this is my country, and no amount of self-righteous, bloviating from the likes of you will ever get me to back off my freedom of thought and expression.

But did you sneak in illegally?

I said before, Louis, you can express any opinion you like and I can call you a fool, if I like. You seem to be trying to limit my freedom of thought and expression.

And I can do it in two languages.

And I can do it in just one.

P.S. If the Founders had believed as you do that a house divided can't stand, then they would not have given us the right and the freedom to stand divided.

What, do you think, would the founders think of unguarded borders letting in those who through cowardice and inaction allowed their country to wax corrupt, and others representing those with whom we're at war?

A house divided falls. That's been known and proved for millennia, Louis. I can't believe you're refuting it. Are you a liberal?

[William Terrell]

It's not illegal to be a communist in this country, so long as you apply for citizenship and run through the process. It probably is idiotic, but not illegal.

But being a "communist" is a state of worldview, whereas being an illegal alien is an assault on the the people of the nation you broke into, especially with socialist programs to suck the people's wealth while you enrich the hellhole you ran from.

I'd rather have a communist.

[taxed2death]

"I don't see how you call that an open border policy."

That doesn't surprise me as your an illegal apologist.

[Luis Gonzalez]

What?

The fact that according to your figures, 82% of all people trying to enter the country illegally in a year are stopped is an open border policy to you?

Do you even realize just how idiotic you've saounded in this entire thread?

You don't have a number that makes sense, you don't have an idea on how to fix anything, you don't understand the Constitutional process (but you call yourself a "Constiotutionalist"), and you can't come up with anything other than a hand-wringing "the sky is falling" post.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Nice tap dance Willy...

You've questioned my being an American because I have facts that round off the illegal alien debate, the fact is that in this country, Americans can have opinions and support ideologies of all kinds, and still be Americans; you're questioning me was purely based on my obvious ethnicity; you've never questioned anyone else's being an American because they disagree with you on this topic.

Go to hell Willie...I'm every bit the American that you are.

There are reasons WHY things happen, nothing exists in a vacuum.

Maybe one of the reasons why the government seems to turn a blind eye to the illegal alien issue is because they LIKE those $7 billion a year in irreclaimable Social Security payments seemingly from illegal aliens (and they KNOW that's where the money comes from), and we need to work toward taking that money from them and forcing them to pay for the costs that illegal aliens run up on our States.

Maybe, we need to work toward having the government craft foreign policy disincentivizing investments in Chinese manufacturing and incentivizes investments in Mexican manufacturing in order to keep Mexican labor in Mexico, but working for American industries. You can't stop people from taking their private business out of the country, let's try steering them to where it does us good and not harm.

To sit and bitch about a problem does nothing, and that's what most do in this forum; you included. To sit and bitch about lopsided facts empowers people like Tom Tancredo...the problem profiteers, whose only goal is keeping themselves in a job by keeping the problem alive in your eyes, but never coming up with a solution.

The only way to solve this problem is to take the profit away from those who profit from it, and until you can identify those profit points, you're doing nothing but whining and complaining to deaf ears.

Go on talking about how much illegal aliens cost the taxpayers...there isn't a politician alive who gives a rat's ass about what things cost the taxpayers.

If Tom Tancredo is successfully winning elections based on the illegal alien problem, other politicians will see that the problem will get them elected..

So they'll get votes from "concerned" citizens who want them to do something about illegal aliens, and campaign money from those who DON'T want them to do anything about the illegal alien problem.

Why the hell would they solve the problem that will help them win elections?

That's the problem Willie, and that's what I constantly try to point out to everyone.

[Razz Barry]

Congress will approve an immigration bill that will grant citizenship rights to most of the 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens in the U.S. after Democrats take control next month, predict both sides on Capitol Hill.

It's hard for me to believe African Americans will stand by the Dems on this. African Americans I know are just as po'ed as I am with illegals.

[William Terrell]

I don't dance, Louis.

I didn't question you being an American, I asked you if you were an American in your heart. Has nothing to do with ethnicity. Ted Turner is an American, but is he in his heart?

I do question those that want to do things that will obviously reduce the security of our nation.

Go to hell Willie

Have I been rude to you? Have I cursed you? Please try to conduct a debate with more decorum.
There are reasons WHY things happen, nothing exists in a vacuum.

You're right. And the reasons why hospitals and local relief agencies are struggling are the illegals sucking of the public funds and free heathcare so they can send more money to a nation whose corruption they ran from instead of bleeding to reform.

Maybe one of the reasons why the government seems to turn a blind eye to the illegal alien issue is because they LIKE those $7 billion a year in irreclaimable Social Security payments seemingly from illegal aliens (and they KNOW that's where the money comes from), and we need to work toward taking that money from them and forcing them to pay for the costs that illegal aliens run up on our States.

We need to phase out the work market accessible to them over some years and deport whom we capture. We don't need their "contribution" especially when their cost far exceed their "contribution".

They need to return to the country they led become a corrupt hellhole to live in poverty and degradation until they grow some balls to do something about it. Then maybe we can deal with them on a more equitable level than as pensioners.

To sit and bitch about a problem does nothing, and that's what most do in this forum; you included. To sit and bitch about lopsided facts empowers people like Tom Tancredo...the problem profiteers, whose only goal is keeping themselves in a job by keeping the problem alive in your eyes, but never coming up with a solution.

What are doing about it, Louis? I write about it and so do you. Check sometime how many more views a thread gets than those who post. One thing I do about it is that I support Tancredo. Has clout I don't have. Whom do you support, Louis? Ted Kennedy?

The only way to solve this problem is to take the profit away from those who profit from it, and until you can identify those profit points, you're doing nothing but whining and complaining to deaf ears.

The profit points are already identified and have been so for decades: businesses hiring illegal aliens, which is the honey that draws them. Take away the honey and the ants will go away. Very simple. We have no lack of personnel to guard the border, that which is not feasible to fence, with arms.

We don't do that, because of various fools, some of whom you no doubt support.

Actually, Louis, anti-illegal immigration made good strides this last election.

[taxed2death]

Spell check is our friend Louie.

But back to your moronic assertions,

If you would stop hyperventilating long enough to read my posts you would see that I am:

100% in support of a guest worker program
100% in support of "immigration reform" with the exception of giving these illegals voting rights. They have not earned it, they do not deserve it. We in fact owe them nothing but a trip BACK across the border if in fact we are to abide by existing laws already on the books. If we grant them some form of legal status they would be happy with that.

Your numbers are so off base that they defy all logic and reason.


Again, as far as I am concerned EVERYTHING is "on the table" and negotiable with the exception of voting rights.

...but then you'd rather continue on with your hissy fit. So be it.

[Luis Gonzalez]

My numbers?

I used your numbers.

You said 6000 a week get in, and there are hard records of 1.4 million stopped at the border.

Do the math.

[taxed2death]

You open border shills are all the same, you quake at the thought of building a physical wall because you KNOW it will work.
If you didn't think it would work you wouldn't be against it.

You illegal apologists are all cut from the same mold.

You CLAIM to be conservative yet you see no problem with GWB's willingness to sign "it's not amnesty" into law thus rolling out the red carpet for 20+ million future Dumocrats thus destroying any chance of the Republican party regaining a foothold in power for the foreseeable future.

You hate America so much that you can not wait until it is converted into a sticking cesspool of corruption like our southern neighbors country.

You actually go so far as to say that the average taxpayer of this country BENEFITS from illegals swamping our school systems, jails and hospitals. You are so delusional in your pursuit to vilify anyone who stands up for Americans and their rights...or anyone who actually defends the taxpayers of this great nation, that you will stoop to no level of outright lying to promote your sick "cause"

[Luis Gonzalez]

"Have I been rude to you?"

Yes, you have been.

You were rude to me when you questioned my being an American based on the fact that we disagree on an idea.

It is BECAUSE I am an American that I get to openly disagree on ideas.

You're less than an American when YOU question whether others are simply because they don't fit your mold of an American. Fidel Castro used the same verbiage when talking about those who disagreed with his "revolution".

"I do question those that want to do things that will obviously reduce the security of our nation."

What is it exactly that I want that does that?

There is nothing I want more than secure borders, I just don't believe that a fence will secure our borders, and "enforcement" is not working out very well either.

Here's a hint: most people call the illegal entry problem a "flood"...a flood is most commonly associated with a river. What happens if you try to contain a river with a fence?

Nothing.

But if you build a dam, you can control the river.

That "dam", when it comes to the idea of the borders, is a controlled guest worker program. That's my idea on how to control our borders, and I have historical proof of the effectiveness of that method, as well as data showing just how ineffective the idea of enforcement has been.

"We don't need their "contribution"...

You're turning a blind eye to some very real issues, and from your posts, you read like a liberal...everything is about how you "feel", most of your responses are emotional and not thought out.

I support George W. Bush, and I oppose Tom Tancredo. I may some day support Tancredo if and when he comes up with what I believe to be a viable plan to achieve border control, I don't support any politician based on the fact that he's efficient at keeping the problem alive for his or her own advancement, and that's what Tom does.

"Actually, Louis, anti-illegal immigration made good strides this last election."

Did it really?

Congress Open to Passing Bill on Immigration (Citizenship for 20 million illegals!)

Here's an insight that you completely missed...

President Bush put forth an initiative to privatize Social Security, in his speech to the nation he detailed the problem with a diminishing worker to retiree ratio, and he gave a clear point of collapse if the program was not fixed.

The Democrats, and some Republicans (Tancredo voted "NO" on strengthening the SS "lock box"), violently opposed the idea BECAUSE it would have helped fix the problem.

By not doing anything to fix SS they secured the future of that $7 billion/year that illegals are pouring into the system. Meanwhile, the issue of illegal immigration became a divisive one in the GOP with people (such as Tom) opposing every idea that was put on the table. Now, the Democrats own the issue, and they'll push through citizenship for millions of illegal aliens, guaranteeing themselves millions of voters for years to come. Those millions of naturalized illegal aliens will now double the payments into the SS system, so the Democrats will claim that they "solved" that problem as well.

Yeah...you all did real good.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"...you quake at the thought of building a physical wall because you KNOW it will work."

How do you KNOW that it will work?

What do you do about the thousands of miles of shoreline?

BTW...President Bush is out, and so is the GOP...and here comes that amnesty.

You did real good.

[taxed2death]

"How do you KNOW that it will work?"

Because illegal crossings have been reduced where fencing has been erected. But then you already know that.

"What do you do about the thousands of miles of shoreline?"

Virtual fence?...LOL
We'll deal with the swimmers when they attempt that stunt.

"BTW...President Bush is out, and so is the GOP...and here comes that amnesty."

And no one could be happier than you...the shill for illegals.

"you did real good"

...you peeps make me laugh...ASSuming you know how I voted.




You're just another Anti-American pimp.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"Because illegal crossings have been reduced where fencing has been erected. But then you already know that."

Hello!!!

They've gone elsewhere.

BTW...I want you to post one post of mine supporting massive illegal immigration or open borders...your inability to understand my points does not make me what you claim that I am.