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Home Schools Run By Well-Meaning Amateurs
NEA ^ | By Dave Arnold

Posted on 11/27/2006 7:04:44 AM PST by meandog

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To: aruanan

Why mock him? He obviously got a quality education from professional teachers, suiting him for an exciting and intellectual career in sanitation management.


501 posted on 11/28/2006 10:54:35 AM PST by JenB (43,604/50,000 - www.nanowrimo.org)
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To: HighWheeler
...of those with SAT scores in the lowest 20 percent chose education as a major. Eighty-five percent of high SAT-scoring students who actually become teachers leave after a brief career. Education majors remain at the bottom of the academic barrel after four years of college ... students whose undergraduate major was education scored at the bottom or at best second from the bottom. Education majors supply not only teachers, counselors and administrators, but also professors of education and leaders of the education establishment. Sowell says professors of education rank just as low among college and university faculty members as education students do among other students...

Yeah, well Walter Williams is a nincompoop! We put our butts on the line every day to teach your snotty-nose little monsters to be good citizens, pay taxes, and to lead some sort of productive lives. I have suffered a broken finger and many bloody noses breaking up the fights of the offspring you and your ilk produce. I have counseled many a pregnant teen about staying in school, confiscated many little bags of a certain South American agricultural product, and actually removed weapons (including a 7-inch knife) from a student...and, guess what, I've done it with no help from you ungrateful parents, thank you very much!
In fact, most of the time all we get from you parents is threats and mountains of criticism (just like what you see on this thread).
I've also helped many students into college which I am proud very of doing...American teaching is the hardest, most underpaid, profession in the world. If you don't believe me, try it--I'm willing to bet a meager teacher's paycheck against your week's windfall profit salary that you'll find it's not for whimps (especially the homeschooled parental ones!).
In most countries teachers are revered along the same lines as "priest," or "soldier," or "doctor," but, here, they are ridiculed and compared to "janitors" because a school custodian thought enough about education quality to write the article. Well, I could care less about your kids homeschool them all the way through college if you want only, when they cannot read, don't blame us!

502 posted on 11/28/2006 10:55:16 AM PST by meandog (These are the times that try men's souls!)
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To: LisaMalia

thank you!


503 posted on 11/28/2006 11:02:51 AM PST by meandog (These are the times that try men's souls!)
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To: Tax-chick; AnAmericanMother; SuziQ; Kozak; vaudine; Oberon; cinives; JenB; Osage Orange; ...

...and post #502 goes double for you ##@*%$ guys!


504 posted on 11/28/2006 11:07:37 AM PST by meandog (These are the times that try men's souls!)
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To: meandog

I really don't get it. Half your posts are extolling all the great things about public schools, the other half make it sound like a war zone. I sure as hell won't ever send a kid of mine into a mess like you described in 502.


505 posted on 11/28/2006 11:14:52 AM PST by JenB (43,604/50,000 - www.nanowrimo.org)
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To: meandog
Well, I could care less about your kids homeschool them all the way through college if you want only, when they cannot read, don't blame us!

yeah, thats why the homeschooled kids kick the ass of the products of our "professional" educators in achievement. Thats why the Catholic schools kick the ass of our "professionals" with a fraction of the money spent per child. Thats why when competency tests are put in place most of you "professionals" can't function at a 12th grade level. Of course the kids DO get a wonderful grounding in condom use, recycling and liberal politics.
506 posted on 11/28/2006 11:15:33 AM PST by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: meandog

Hey meandog, I'm with you on this!

The fact that a lot of teachers are dolts doesn't mean every teacher is a dolt.

I'm a high school sub teacher about 6-10 times per year teaching science and math. I have a couple of teacher friends who are smart and conservative also. I'm glad to hear that another FReeper is a teacher. If we had more conservatives teaching in schools, many of the problems there would wither.

The fact remains that most professional teachers are not bright, which explains why most of them are die-hard goofy libs.

Use your power to set them straight. With puppy dog innocence I will drop a thought bomb on the teachers during lunch whenever I can, such as simply asking "What do you think the terrorists would do if we left Iraq, would they come here instead?" Then whatever lib-crap they spew, I come back with "Are you SUUUURE?, and would you bet your life on that?"


507 posted on 11/28/2006 11:21:42 AM PST by HighWheeler (A true liberal today is a combination of socialist, fascist, hypocrite, and anti-American.)
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To: meandog
n most countries teachers are revered along the same lines as "priest," or "soldier," or "doctor," but, here, they are ridiculed and compared to "janitors" because a school custodian thought enough about education quality to write the article. Well, I could care less about your kids homeschool them all the way through college if you want only, when they cannot read, don't blame us!

In other countries teachers actually teach and turn out students who beat the pants off our students in international competitions. The American education establishment turns out kids who are barely literate and then has the temerity to demand respect ... for what ?

Your attitude on this entire thread exemplifies what many of us have experienced from the public education establishment in this country - no accountability, protect the institution even as it fails, and blame parents first and lack of funding second.

508 posted on 11/28/2006 11:22:13 AM PST by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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To: napscoordinator
the death of parochial and private schools.... I don't think this is true. I graduated from Catholic school and the kids in my family all go to Catholic School (nephews). Mine go to DODDS right now, but will go back to Catholic School when we return to the states.

I'm glad to hear there are still some Catholic schools out there but it's not a growth industry. Without being able to pull an immediate statistic I would say there are more Catholic schools closing than opening. For ancedotial information, the two Catholic High Schools in my home town of Waltham MA have closed (St Mary's and St Pierre's) and none remain open. The next town over, Watertown MA, St Pats closed about 15 years ago. My feeling is public schools have become so expensive that it's hard for parents to send their kids to Catholic school after paying a big tax bill to support the public schools. I also think this impacts the parishes that slowly become unglued as less and less holds the parishioners together.
509 posted on 11/28/2006 11:22:46 AM PST by jackieaxe (Unsourced reporting is not reporting but a lie or a manipulation)
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To: meandog
My, my....that rant shows your true colors! You think the kids you teach are "snotty-nose little monsters" and you expect that we would want to entrust our children to someone with that mindset? You are demanding respect when you give none. Sorry pal, the real world doesn't work that way.

BTW, most homeschooled parents aren't in the "windfall profit salary" category - we just care about what our kids are being taught. We don't want our children in the learning atmosphere that you keep raging about. We want the best for our kids.....and most public schools/teachers fall very short of what's best.

510 posted on 11/28/2006 11:23:14 AM PST by 2nd amendment mama ( www.2asisters.org • Self defense is a basic human right!)
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To: JenB
I really don't get it. Half your posts are extolling all the great things about public schools, the other half make it sound like a war zone. I sure as hell won't ever send a kid of mine into a mess like you described in 502

Though not war zones, I'm not trying to pass them all off as academic Edens either...the point is, they could be a lot better but only WITH THE HELP OF CARING PARENTS. Get involved with you local school to make it better!

511 posted on 11/28/2006 11:26:05 AM PST by meandog (These are the times that try men's souls!)
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To: meandog
Education majors are the fallback for those who can't hack it with real degrees in math and science. They are hardly the "cream of the crop". The skill level needed to teach the basic math/english/science/music curriculum is not very high. Public schools are mostly babysitting institutions with scholarship added as window dressing. Well meaning amateurs with decent teaching materials can do a much better job of individualized instruction than the cattle car babysitting methods of the public schools.
512 posted on 11/28/2006 11:28:34 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: meandog

I did try it. My company had a program where they paid an engineer to work at an elementary school in a school in the bad part of town.

I ended up hating it. It was funny because the teachers think of engineering as not a people friendly job, and that is what I hated the most about teaching. In engineering, I was part of a team of other engineers. I like working with a team.

In teaching you are one person in there. If you like being in charge, you'll like teaching.

A couple of other observations. Engineers definitely work harder than teachers. Most of my fellow engineers worked many late nights and on weekends. We also did not have much time off (3 weeks sick/vacation days off for the entire year, and only a few holidays off). Engineering is academically also very hard. Each project is different. You are constantly having to teach yourself new things. It is constantly evolving, and it is very difficult to stay on top of things. Also, the products that my company (a defense company produced) could not fail. If they failed, people's lives were at stake.

Another observation was that the good teachers really made the difference in the classroom. Some of the teachers were just great, and some of the teachers were just lousy. I had one teacher that would eat in front of her kids and yell at them all of the time. When I was in the classroom, she sat around and did nothing. The other teachers helped out with discipline or explaining things to kids that didn't get what I was doing. (I helped in the computer lab.) Kids wanted to do well with the good teachers, and they loved them.

I also think that the first few years of teaching are the hardest because you have to come up with lessons plans. However, these days with the internet that is much easier.

Bad parents and bad kids definitely make teaching harder. No two ways about it.

When my kids have been in the public school, I actually liked my kids teachers. I did not like the policies of the administrators from principals up to the superintendent. I also did not like the bad kids and bad parents. The problems with the administration and the bad kids are the main reason two of my kids are no longer in public school.


513 posted on 11/28/2006 11:28:36 AM PST by luckystarmom
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To: HighWheeler; meandog

I don't think anyone here does think all teachers are dolts. We've all come across those teachers who we wish would be teaching all our kids' classes. Meandog has a hair up his butt and sees a declining enrollment as homeschooling and charter schools increase in numbers as a threat to his way of life (which of course it is).

However, he spews all kinds of garbage such as homeschoolers turn out illiterates and social misfits, and then declines to back up any of his statements with references. I've variously asked him on this thread to provide sources, his level of educational competence and so on and have had absolutely zero response. If you assign a kid a term paper and they don't list sources, do you give them a good grade ?


514 posted on 11/28/2006 11:28:41 AM PST by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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To: AnAmericanMother
They ask the CUSTODIAN to write this? They couldn't find a teacher?

The custodian is probably the best educated and literate person at that institution. They wouldn't dare let the teachers write the article. It would expose their incompetence.

515 posted on 11/28/2006 11:32:00 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: meandog
Though not war zones, I'm not trying to pass them all off as academic Edens either...the point is, they could be a lot better but only WITH THE HELP OF CARING PARENTS. Get involved with you local school to make it better!

I'm not going to invest large chunks of my life in trying to prop up a failed paradigm. Even if I wanted to do so, it wouldn't be wise.

Having seen public health care (as practiced in Canada and the UK) and public housing (as practiced here in the US), I really don't care to participate in public education, thanks. It's just a bad idea.

I don't think it will ever go away entirely; but it's possible that at some point in the future it'll be the educational choice of last resort, for those who are out of options. The sooner we get there as a nation, the better off we'll be.

Mind you, this isn't the fault of the professionals in the system; this is the fault of the system itself. It just doesn't work very well.

516 posted on 11/28/2006 11:37:27 AM PST by Oberon (What does it take to make government shrink?)
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To: meandog
Somewhat flawed...the stats have been derived by homeschooling advocates who take a sample of homeschooled children against the whole of public school educated ones. A better sample would be to compare homeschooled kids against a subset of public school students who have parental involvement. And, when that comparison is made, the homeschooled kids place well-behind their competition.

You're cherry picking your own ideal group for comparison. The "parental involvement" indicates the parents are having to compensate for what the schools can't accomplish alone. Try comparing public school students without parental involvement to home schooled students so you don't have a mixed paradigm.

517 posted on 11/28/2006 11:39:29 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: mockingbyrd
Just saw your post! She's at Ave Maria Univ. in Naples FL, and is really enjoying it. She stayed there for Thanksgiving, and called that evening. She said she'd been sitting in the sun by the pool reading a book for Lit class, when she saw a guy walking by with a plate full of food. He told her that there was Thanksgiving dinner going on in one of the girls' dorms, so she joined them. It was mostly upperclassmen, but a couple of her friends from the Freshman class were there, too.

She is really enjoying her classes, the material and the teachers, too.

518 posted on 11/28/2006 12:04:19 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: cinives; JenB; Myrddin; luckystarmom; Oberon
Here are some comments from teachers about homeschoolers who returned to their classes: click here
519 posted on 11/28/2006 12:10:51 PM PST by meandog (These are the times that try men's souls!)
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To: SuziQ
Here is another example of a homeschool click here
520 posted on 11/28/2006 12:14:41 PM PST by meandog (These are the times that try men's souls!)
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