Posted on 11/17/2006 10:46:11 AM PST by TheKidster
GOLDEN, Colo. -- A judge has upheld a homeowners association's order barring a couple from smoking in the town house they own.
Colleen and Rodger Sauve, both smokers, filed a lawsuit in March after their condominium association amended its bylaws last December to prohibit smoking.
"We argued that the HOA was not being reasonable in restricting smoking in our own unit, nowhere on the premises, not in the parking lot or on our patio," Colleen Sauve said. The Heritage Hills #1 Condominium Owners Association was responding to complaints from the Sauves' neighbors who said cigarette smoke was seeping into their units, representing a nuisance to others in the building.
In a Nov. 7 ruling, Jefferson County District Judge Lily Oeffler ruled the association can keep the couple from smoking in their own home.
Oeffler stated "smoke and/or smoke smell" is not contained to one area and that smoke smell "constitutes a nuisance." She noted that under condo declarations, nuisances are not allowed.
The couple now has to light up on the street in front of their condominium building.
"I think it's ridiculous. If there's another blizzard, I'm going to be having to stand out on the street, smoking a cigarette," said Colleen Suave.
For five years the couple has smoked in their living room and that had neighbors fuming.
"At times, it smells like someone is sitting in the room with you, smoking. So yes, it's very heavy," said condo owner Christine Shedron.
The Sauves said they have tried to seal their unit. One tenant spent thousands of dollars trying to minimize the odor.
"We got complaints and we felt like it was necessary to protect our tenants and our investment," said Shedron.
The Suaves said they would like to appeal the judge's ruling but are unsure if they have the money to continue fighting. They said what goes on behind their closed doors shouldn't be other people's business.
"I don't understand. If I was here and I was doing a lawful act in my home when they got here, why can they say, 'OK, now you have to change,'" said Colleen Suave. "We're not arguing the right to smoke as much as we're arguing the right to privacy in our home."
Other homeowners believe, as with loud music, that the rights of a community trump the rights of individual residents. The HOA is also concerned that tenants will sue those homeowners for exposure to second-hand smoke and this could be a liability issue.
The couple said that they would like to unload their condo and get out of the HOA entirely, but they are not sure if the real estate market is right.
Seems like kind of straight forward contract thing. When you enter an HOA you are bound by the contract. If their contractual rights are violated they should hire a lawyer.
Meanwhile maybe they could just quit smoking and the problem would go away.
Of course. If you HOA allows it. That is the point not whether you can smoke or not. Just don't blow it over here.
I've had the exact opposite experience. I rented a house right after college from a couple. it was in a HOA neighborhood. Since my roommates and I weren't a "traditional family" and I drove an older car they immediately targetted us. They slandered us up and down the neighborhood, harassed us, tried to intimidate us and pulled all kinds of petty tricks. Our land lord had to eventually hire a lawyer to shut them up. We didn't do anything wrong and we didn't even own the house but they tried to force us to pay dues and when we wouldn't do that they tried to get us evicted. It was all because of a nosey old lady across the street who had too much time on her hands, didn't like people of color, had an incorrect prejudice against young men just out of college, and no grace in her heart.
This happens ALL OVER THE PLACE and my experience was quite minor. After I got married and moved out my roommate wanted to buy the house, she tried to block the sale, again to fulfill her personal vandetta. When that didn't work they voted (secretly mind you) that the rules were changed and that he had to join the HOA and pay dues in order to purchase the house. This wasn't from the sellers, it was this old lady using the HOA to deny the current owners the right to sell and my friend the right to purchase. Again the lawyers were brought in after they let his dues "he owed" secretly buld up and they tried to forclose. He never signed the covenant and it wasn't a rule UNTIL he wanted to buy. That lady made up her mind the day we were moving in that she didn't like us or want us living across the street and she used the HOA to eliminate a percieved inconvenience. She had never even met us and already wanted us out.
My friend was lucky and was able to keep the house, but this kind of crap happens often and others arent so lucky.
I don't know how often that occurs but I have never seen anything remotely like that.
A carcinogen needs to retain its character within or about tissue for some length of time to be effective; one would have to be poisoned by a diabolic soul for ozone to be an efficient tool.
Since you deny your screen name I am not sure if I should call you "My dear girl" or "You dumb old fart", however, niceties aside, would you let me know when you make a smokeproof building so that I can invest some money in the design?
I'd love to get rich and move out of this slum I live in.
Of course it's something to be proud of you dumbass. It doesn't make you better than somebody else. Surprisingly some of us find other things in life more valuable than wealth, like say God, or family, or fishing, or service, etc.
If you base your worth on how much money you bring home then you are a sorry man and I pity you because you are going to lose it all.
I'm not completely consumed with materialism and believe people are inherently valuable because they are made in the image of God, and that makes me a commie?
If you aren't already up to speed, Google up Bruce Ames and see what happened to the guy who started all this cancer through science stuff.
Who said I was better?
You really are making alot of assumptions, and using pretty bad language for a person who is alleging you see people as inherently valuable and made in the image of God.
I mean, if I am made in the image of God, how come you call me a dumbass and insult me in various ways.
I think you are a bully and a child.
Meanwhile maybe they could just quit smoking and the problem would go away.
In the long run, that would be the wisest thing to do from a personal preservation and having a peaceful life stand point. Fighting a drawn out court battle is probably harder and less pleasant than jonesing for a smoke really really really bad, but they would endorse the HOA's ridiculous actions. From the article though it sounds like they are out of funds and steam anyhow.
You may address me as "My dear woman" or "your Majesty" or "Citizen" or "comrade".
Some buildings are more smokeproof than others. But if I were a smoker, I don't think I would live in a building that was leaky for smoke. People would be sure to complain.
Grade School?
Heck, I got kicked out of Kindergarten because I couldn't scribble.
Fun indeed! Fridays are like my day off because I only am tied up until about 10 O'clock.
Fair enough. Let’s call it a law for our little FR world. We agree up front to the laws and understand what could cause our banishment. In the case of the "offending" owners, the rules were apparently changed to restrict their rights to use a legal product in the privacy of their home after they had purchased the condo. (Please correct me if I’m wrong) If we are banned from FR for any reason, we have not lost a necessity or lost any money. If these owners want to continue to exercise their legal rights, they would be forced to lose a necessity and possible lose money. To me, this is somewhat moot because I think the other owners should go after the constructor of the unit for cross-ventilation problems.
As for the hypothetical offensive response, I might find it rude. But I could also find it entertaining depending on how fluent in profanity you are.
"From the article though it sounds like they are out of funds and steam anyhow."
really, if they quit they would have more money. It must be pretty bad to be so hooked that you do not have money yet spend what you do have on smoking. I wonder what a smoker on average spends on it in their life time.
I remember 2 really sad situations within the last few years involving a wife being forced to take down a yellow ribbon on her tree or some such symbol for her husband while he was fighting in the middle east.
The other was in FL involving a elderly man displaying an american flag to support the troops. It either was or wasn't on a flag pole of specific dimensions and they pounded on him for it.
Because I'm a childish bully.
Garlic is good for your health!
I don't think the rules were changed. They were applied. The rule that allows a change of rules supersides the rules that can be changed.
I've lived in Nashville, TN for 21 years and have resided in 3 different apartment complexes. I've had this problem with every single one. The smoke odors usually seem to be coming from two main sources, the bathroom and the small closet where my water heater and central heat/air unit are located. If someone burns food, you can smell it, or if they are smoking pot, you can smell it also. These apartment complexes are mass produced and thrown up quicker than you can snap your fingers, and so I assume this is why odors are transferred from one apartment to another.
I've lived in my apartment for over three years and my neighbor downstairs has only been here a little over a year. I'd love to complain to management, but I can already predict what kind of response I would get here in the south. Heck, the lady that manages the place is a chain smoker herself! I don't think that she's going to have too much sympathy for me.
So, just who's behavior is going to be easier to alter? It's either them taking a few minutes to go outside to smoke, or me having to live my entire day outside.
It's their behavior that is abnormal, not mine.
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