The Libertarian Effect

Real Clear Politics ^ | 11/13/06 | ROSS KAMINSKY

[GoLightly]

" Must be some kind of celebration at libertarian central knowing they've created a socialist landslide in the middle of a war."

They're still in denial & may possibly remain that way, like a bunch of Buchanites that hang around here.

[SUSSA]

Here's my "libertarian" stance on abortion: If it's human, initiation of force against it such that it dies is murder and punishable by death.

Is that "principled" enough for you?

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I agree with that. Many small "l" libertarians do. Unfortunately, the Libertarian Party official stance, many of its members, and most of its establishment, supports abortion on demand.

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Other than that, each individual SHOULD be allowed to do what they want as long as doing so doesn't interfere with the equal Rights of others. And no, using the excuse of socialism's "cost" via insurance and medical care rates doesn't count. Those are problems created by government, not by freedom of action.

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I tend to agree, but we may disagree here if you are one of the Libertarians who believe the country shouldn't have any controls on who crosses its borders. Other than that I agree.

I don’t just fault the Libertarians on these issues. I also fault the Republicans and so-called conservatives, who attack libertarians for being against helmet laws, drug prohibition, socialized schooling, and on and on.

Both groups need to give a little to make the country a better place.

[Muleteam1]

Libertarians' desire for an ungoverned society and the Democrats' acceptance of social immorality significantly makes that large gulf a pool.

[uncbob]

While a passionate conservative in 1992, I was young and pathetically naive... all I knew was that Bush Senior wasn't as conservative as I wanted and I voted third party.

I have votes for JFK and LBJ on my conscience . It took me 8 years after JFK in 60 to wise up

[cynwoody]

I am personally acquainted with the Libertarian candidate who ran in the Sodrel/Hill race in IN-9. (A fine fellow, by the way, even though I didn't vote for him.) He got 4% of the vote, the margin of victory was less than 3% (if memory serves). But he told me that the polling indicates that he took most of his votes away from the Democrat, Baron Hill. (The polls ask questions on things like abortion, as well as who you voted for.)

Baron Hill (D) got 9682 more votes than Mike Sodrel (R), with Eric Schansberg (L) siphoning off 9920 votes (CNN). So, it would have taken 97.6% of the Losertarian votes to have swung the race to the Republican.

Here's what Schansberg posted on the Reason Magazine blog afterward:

Given the available polling data, it appears that I was getting more votes from Hill than Sodrel-- ironically, keeping Sodrel in the race.

This is also consistent with the issues I emphasized in the race-- fiscal conservatism for traditional GOP voters, but quickest out of Iraq and ways in which the govt harms the working poor and middle class for traditional DEM voters. I had good reasons for voters in both camps to leave their normal choices.

[Blackirish]

Anyway, I'm sick to death of this chicken-shit response for "libertarians."

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So you admit to acting denser then you actually are.

Wow truly stuck on stupid..LOL

[uncbob]

Boo-hoo.

Ain't asking for your vote
You just helped prove my point about being SNOBS

Only pointing out that 51 liberal judges ain't bringing back the constitution any time soon

[catholicfreeper]

After looking at this thread and several others I think the main point why we lost is being missed. That is we ate our own. My email was full of pieces slamming fellow Republicans all year long calling them every name under the sun. It seems we forgot that there was another party out there that was truly the political foe till it was too late. Over the last year the emails focused on some issues we have dealt with the

Gang of 14-
I keep hearing this is a reason why Republicans lost? Really over the Nuclear option? That is so inside baseball no one cared. Never even heard it mentioned

Dubai Port deal- Well the President and others got slammed on that and boy did that help us at the polls. Another live or die issue of the hour that was not

Harriet Myers-
Somehow this is a reason but its often brought up even though we got Judge ALito out of it. For some reason Alito was never mentioned as a plus in this campaign

Immigration-
Emotional and complex issue that pretty much sent us on attack mode on each other.

That being said Republicans are a weird group that has a coaltion of business(big and small), Social and Religious Conservatives, Free Traders, Buchananite conservatives, Liberatarians,Fiscal Hawks, and small Govt types. Pretty much each of these factions and more were told to go to hell by their fellow Republicans and Conservatives.

THe key is sort out the difference in the Primaries. That is what they are for. We had some good examples of Republican primary races were there was a competition of ideas. After the Primary make up and shake hands and support the winner. It seems well into Sept I was still hearing about RINOS or Religious nuts taking over the party, or Big spending Republicans. Bad move. No one woke up to the fact that Pelosi and Brain Trust like Bennie Thompson chairing such things as the Homeland Security Committee was about to happen till it was too late.

[photodawg]

in the shortest definition I can muster, is someone who is fiscally conservative and socially liberal.
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amend that to : someone who is fiscally conservative and socially hedonistic, self centered, and incapable of subordinating his ego for the good of all. He is no patriot except unto himself and cannot be reasoned with or see the forest for the trees. He understands liberals, because they both love the same weed, and also exhibits the same elitist, " I know better than anyone else " attitude that liberals espouse. The same attitude, by the way that oozes from every word of this revealing article showing the depths of stupidity these guys are capable of.

[george76]

Like the votes that went to Perot to punish Bush 41....then we got Clinton.

This logic of moral relativism that ends up putting in a lefty in power is stunning.

I guess that it is like sitting high up in a tree to be closer to god ?

[Sam Hill]

"Wow truly stuck on stupid..LOL"

Brilliant come back.

Have another toke, man.

What difference can it make now?

[cowtowney]

"I don't understand why losertarians hang here?"

I don't understand why you big government, country club republicans hang here. Don't you have another entitlement to grow?

[photodawg]

What leftists love about libertarian voters is that they elect democrats.....


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Amen brother. This is what we're up against as civilization hangs in the balance. There's two LIBS. Liberals and Libertarians, and they both love their weed. Which is probably why teaching republicans a lesson is more important to them than protecting the nation and teaching the islamists a lesson. By the way the first people to become dhimmis in the caliphate will be the two LIBS. They deserve each other.

[Sam Cree]

"In a sense, Democrats believe that the citizens work for the government."

We do work for the government.

[photodawg]

I don't blame libertarians for voting for their party. If you want them to vote GOP get the GOP to spend less, it seems pretty simple to me.



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Its not that simple. Legalizing weed and every other damn thing would also be necessary. I mean I love licentious behavior also, but I don't want to legalize it. Speed limits and marijuana arrests are necessary. Just pay the friggin' fine and move on. You don't have to make a political party out of childish rebellion.

[Sam Hill]

"There's two LIBS. Liberals and Libertarians, and they both love their weed."

And they are both heavily funded by George Soros.

In fact, if somebody could show me where the LP and Soros part ways in their high-minded principals, I would eat my hat.

[kinoxi]

The dems don't want it legal either. I think spending restraint would have swayed most to R's.

[photodawg]

You can't tell me there weren't enough Republican votes in the 47% of the electorate who sat home on their butts to elect Talent if they'd just gotten up and done it.

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You can only count the people who showed up. We don't know how many of the 47% were even conscious on election day. That becomes conjecture. The facts are that the republicans needed 1.9 and 2.5 libertarians said no we will just masturbate for ourselves and let the islamist party have a chance. Hey maybe they'll even legalize pot.

[lakey]

No, you are the one stuck on stupid. How long are we supposed to wait before these politicians sit up and take notice that they are making a mockery of border laws, our sovereignty?

The only way I know to tell them is at the polls. Letters don't seem to work....I've done that for 20+ years.

Bush is in over his head. He is beholden to the corporate elite.