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A New Foundation for Positive Cultural Change: Science and God in the Public Square
Human Events ^ | September 15, 2000 | Nancy Pearcey

Posted on 10/28/2006 3:22:14 PM PDT by betty boop

Moral conservatives were shocked to read a thinly veiled defense of infanticide in the New York Times a few years ago by MIT [now of Harvard] professor Steven Pinker. But they would be even more disturbed if they saw Pinker’s justification for his views in a book that appeared about the same time.

In How the Mind Works, Pinker argues that the fundamental premise of ethics has been disproved by science. “Ethical theory,” he writes, “requires idealizations like free, sentient, rational, equivalent agents whose behavior is uncaused.” Yet, “the world, as seen by science, does not really have uncaused events.”

In other words, moral reasoning assumes the existence of things that science tells us are unreal. Pinker tries to retain some validity for ethics nonetheless by offering a “double truth” theory: “A human being,” he says, “is simultaneously a machine and a sentient agent, depending on the purposes of the discussion.”

It’s astonishing that anyone, especially an MIT professor, would be capable of sustaining two such contradictory ideas. But in fact, it is quite common, says Phillip Johnson in The Wedge of Truth. Since the Enlightenment, knowledge has split into two separate and often contradictory spheres: “facts” (science) versus “values” (ethics, religion, the humanities).

The trouble with this division is that eventually one side comes to dominate. This is the key to understanding why America is embroiled in a culture clash today, Johnson argues — and why moral and religious conservatives are losing. The direction in intellectual history since the Enlightenment has been to grant science the authority to pronounce what is real, true, objective, and rational, while relegating ethics and religion to the realm of subjective opinion and nonrational experience.

Once this definition of knowledge is conceded, then any position that appears to be backed by science will ultimately triumph in the public square over any position that appears based on ethics or religion. The details of the particular debate do not matter. For, in principle, we do not enact into public policy and we do not teach in the public schools views based private opinion or tribal prejudice.

Johnson gives a rich description of how the fact/value dichotomy operates. Its origin is generally traced to Descartes, who proposed a sharp dualism between matter and mind. It was not long before the realm of matter came to be seen as more certain, more objective, than the realm of mind. The subject matter of physics is indeed much simpler than metaphysics, and hence yields far wider agreement. This was mistakenly taken to mean that physics is objective while metaphysics is subjective. The result was the rise of scientism and positivism — philosophies that accord naturalistic science a monopoly on knowledge and consign all else to mere private belief and fantasy.

Today, Johnson writes, “the dominance of the scientific naturalist definition of knowledge eventually ensures that no independent source of knowledge will be recognized.”

Darwin, Buddha, Jesus, Fairies
Yet, depending on how scientists judge the public’s mood, they are more or less blunt about this epistemological imperialism. When feeling secure in their role as the cultural priesthood, they insist that naturalistic science has completely discredited the claims of religion. Tufts philosopher Daniel Dennett, in Darwin’s Dangerous Idea, says Darwinian evolution is “a universal acid” that dissolves all traditional religious and moral beliefs. He suggests that traditional churches be relegated to “cultural zoos” for the amusement of onlookers.

I witnessed the same attitude at a conference last April at Baylor University: Nobel prize-winner Steven Weinberg lumped together all spiritual teachings, whether of Buddha or Jesus, as talk about “fairies.” A few months earlier he had told the Freedom From Religion Association, “I personally feel that the teaching of modern science is corrosive to religious belief, and I’m all for that.” If science helps bring about the end of religion, he concluded, “it would be the most important contribution science could make.”

Using a sports metaphor, Johnson calls these outspoken scientists “the offensive platoon,” brought out as needed to “invok[e] the authority of science to silence any theistic protest.” At other times, however, when the public shows signs of restlessness at this imposition of naturalistic philosophy under the guise of science, “the defensive platoon takes the field. That is when we read spin-doctored reassurances that many scientists are religious (in some sense) . . . and that science and religion are separate realms which should never be mixed.”

But separate-but-equal in principle invariably means unequal in practice. For example, a report by the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) says, “whether God exists or not is a question about which science is neutral.” But a survey of NAS members by Larry Witham and Edward Larson in Scientific American found that 90% of scientists don’t believe in a supernatural God. Witham and Larson conclude: “The irony is remarkable: a group of specialists who are nearly all unbelievers — and who believe that science compels such a conclusion — told the public that ‘science is neutral’ on the God question.”

Or perhaps worse than an irony, Johnson comments; it may be a “noble lie” that the intellectual priesthood tells to the common people to conceal their own nihilism.

Keep the Public In the Dark
Similarly, Harvard’s Stephen J. Gould proposes a peacemaking formula he calls NOMA (“non-overlapping magisteria”), granting science and religion each its own distinct authority. This sounds fair enough — but it all depends on where one draws the line. Consider Gould’s assessment of the 1996 statement by John Paul II, in which the pope tentatively supported evolution while emphatically rejecting any theories that “consider the spirit as emerging from the forces of living matter or as a mere epiphenomenon of this matter.”

How did Gould treat this affirmation of the reality of the spiritual realm? He condescendingly granted that such a quaint notion might have some “metaphorical value,” but added that he privately suspected it to be “no more than a sop to our fears, a device for maintaining a belief in human superiority within an evolutionary world offering no privileged position to any creature.”

In other words, Gould reduced religion to mere emotion at best — at worst, to the sin of speciesism. This was a bit much even for John Haught of Georgetown University, himself an ardent evolutionist: He complained that Gould “never concedes the slightest cognitive status to religion” — that for Gould religion merely “paints a coat of ‘value’ over the otherwise valueless ‘facts’ described by science.”

Precisely. For the modern Darwinist, Johnson explains, the only role left for the theologian “is to put a theistic spin on the story provided by materialism.” Theology does not provide an independent source of knowledge; all it can do is “borrow knowledge to put a subjective interpretation on it.”

Clearly, the function of the defensive platoon is merely to keep religious folk content with their subordinate status. Darwinists understand that it is sometimes more effective not to press the logic of the fact/value split to its unpalatable conclusions too adamantly, lest the public catch on and raise a protest. Instead of arguing that religion is false, by relegating it to the “value” realm, they keep the question of true and false off the table altogether. As Johnson says, religion is consigned “to the private sphere, where illusory beliefs are acceptable ‘if they work for you.’”

Thus the fact/value split “allows the metaphysical naturalists to mollify the potentially troublesome religious people by assuring them that science does not rule out ‘religious belief’ (so long as it does not pretend to be knowledge).”

Once this division is accepted in principle however, Johnson warns, the philosophical naturalists have won. “Whenever the ‘separate realms’ logic surfaces, you can be sure that the wording implies that there is a ruling realm (founded on reality) and a subordinate realm (founded on illusions which must be retained for the time being).” Hence, “the formula allows the ruling realm to expand its territory at will.”

Epistemological Imperialism
The expansion of the “fact” realm into theology can be traced in the work of scientists such as Harvard’s E.O. Wilson, who seeks to explain religion itself as a product of evolution. Religion is merely an idea that appears in the human mind when the nervous system has evolved to a certain level of complexity.

In Consilience, Wilson says religion evolved because belief in God gave early humans an edge in the struggle for survival. Today, he says, we must abandon traditional religions and develop a new unifying myth based squarely on evolution — a religion that deifies the process itself, where no teaching, no doctrine, is true in any final sense because all ideas evolve over time.

A similar expansion can be traced in ethics, where sociobiology and evolutionary psychology now presume to answer moral questions. In the notorious New York Times article mentioned above, Pinker argues that since infanticide is widespread in human cultures, it must be a product of evolution. As he puts it, the “emotional circuitry of mothers has evolved” to include a “capacity for neonaticide.” It is simply part of our “biological design.”

Accept this logic, Johnson warns, and you will be pressed to the conclusion that killing off babies is not a moral horror but a morally neutral act, a genetically encoded evolutionary adaptation, like wings or claws.

Pinker does not draw this conclusion — yet. But when the time seems ripe to overthrow the traditional moral view, Johnson predicts, doctrinaire naturalists “will complete the logic by observing that the moral sphere is as empty as the religious realm,” and therefore has no power to stand against the conclusions of “science.”

Shortly after Johnson finished his book, his forewarnings were confirmed by the appearance of a book titled The Natural History of Rape, which argued that, biologically speaking, rape is not a pathology; instead, it is an evolutionary strategy for maximizing reproductive success: In other words, if candy and flowers don’t do the trick, some men may resort to coercion to fulfill the reproductive imperative. The book calls rape “a natural, biological phenomenon that is a product of the human evolutionary heritage,” akin to “the leopard’s spots and the giraffe’s elongated neck.”

The book roused sharp controversy, but as one of the authors, Randy Thornhill, said on National Public Radio, the logic is inescapable: Since evolution is true, it must be true, he said, that “every feature of every living thing, including human beings, has an underlying evolutionary background. That’s not a debatable matter.” Every behavior that exists today must confer some evolutionary advantage; otherwise, it would not have been preserved by natural selection.

The “fact” realm has even expanded into the philosophy of mind, where consistent Darwinists tell us there is no single, central “self,” residing somehow within the body, that makes decisions, holds opinions, loves and hates. Instead, in the currently popular “computational” theory, the mind is a set of computers that solve specific problems forwarded by the senses. The notion of a unified self is an illusion, Pinker says — an illusion selected by evolution only because our body needs to be able to go one direction at a time.

Of course, computers operate without consciousness, so the question arises why we are conscious beings. Some neuroscientists conclude that we aren’t — that consciousness too is an illusion. Philosopher Paul Churchland says mental states do not exist, and suggests that we replace language about beliefs and desires with statements about the nervous system’s physical mechanisms — the activation of neurons and so on.

Piling example upon example, Johnson illustrates the epistemological imperialism of the “fact” sphere. This explains why moral and religious conservatives seem to have little effect in the public square: Their message is filtered through a fact/value grid that reduces it to an expression of mere emotional attachment and tribal prejudice. To turn the tide of the culture war, conservatives must challenge this definition of knowledge, and make the case that religion and morality are genuine sources of knowledge. We must “assert the existence of such a cognitive territory,” Johnson writes, “and be prepared to defend it. ” [Emphasis added.]

Of course, others have offered philosophical arguments to undercut the fact/value dichotomy, notably Michael Polanyi and Leo Strauss. What makes Johnson’s approach unique is that he takes the battle into science itself. He proposes that Darwinian evolution itself can and should be critiqued, since it functions as the crucial scientific support for philosophical naturalism. For if nature alone can produce everything that exists, then we must accept the reductionist conclusions described above. If, to take the last example, the mind is a product of material processes at its origin, then we must concede that it consists of nothing more than material processes — that our thoughts are reducible to the firing of neurons.

How Information Changes Everything
In science itself, the cutting-edge issue is information, Johnson says. Any text, whether a book or the DNA code, requires a complex, nonrepeating arrangement of letters. Can this kind of order be produced by chance or law? The answer, he argues, is no. Chance produces randomness, while physical law produces simple, repetitive order (like using a macro on your computer to print a phrase over and over). The only cause of complex, nonrepeating, specified order is an intelligent agent. [Emphasis added.]

Ordinary laboratory research implicitly assumes the reality of intelligent design, Johnson notes. Biologists talk of “molecular machines” and evaluate their “engineering design.” They conduct experiments that are described as “reverse engineering” to determine what functions biological structures perform. They talk about “libraries” of genetic information stored in DNA, and about how RNA “translates” the four-letter language of the nucleotides into the 20-letter language of proteins.

All this implies that information is real — and information in turn implies the existence of a mind, a personal agent, capable of intention and choice. Thus purposes and ends [e.g., formal and final causes, to use the Aristotelian language] are real and objective, and the “value” realm is restored to the status of genuine knowledge.

Johnson only hints at what this would imply for a revival of traditional theology and ethics. But he suggests that it would begin with the many-layered verse in John 1:1, “In the beginning was the Word,” the Logos — reason, intelligence, information. “These simple words make a fundamental statement that is directly contradictory to the corresponding starting point of scientific materialism,” Johnson writes, and they open the door to a much richer definition of knowledge and of reason itself.

This conclusion is certainly suggestive, though not well developed. Johnson’s greatest accomplishment is to give a deft analysis of the imperialism of the “fact” sphere. Unfortunately, he barely touches on the opposite dynamic — the incursion of the “value” sphere into the “fact” realm — which is well advanced in many fields. It is called postmodernism, and it reduces all knowledge claims to social constructions at best, to power plays at worst. Johnson devotes a chapter to the impact of postmodernism on the humanities, but it is the thinnest chapter in the book, and it is clear that his greatest concern is with the scientific fields where the older Enlightenment rationalism still reigns.

For the rationalist, Johnson is no doubt correct that the only approach that carries weight is a scientific one. Only a demonstration that the scientific data itself has theistic implications bridges the sphere of objective, public, verifiable knowledge. Johnson includes clear and readable discussions of standard anti-Darwinian arguments. (There has long been skepticism within the scientific community about the enormous extrapolation from minor variations within living things to explain the origin of living things.) He also gives a deliciously witty account of the Kansas controversy.

The strength of the book, however, is to show the wide-ranging implications of intelligent design theory in other fields, and to trace its relevance for nonscientists — indeed, for all who are concerned about preserving a free and humane society.

Copyright 2000. Human Events. All rights reserved. International copyright secured. File Date: 10.23.00

* * * * * * *

This data file may be reproduced in its entirety for non-commercial use. A return link to the Access Research Network web site would be appreciated.

[URL -- http://www.arn.org/ with gratitude.]


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: darwinism; intelligentdesign; moralabsolutes; nancypearcey; phillipjohnson; religionisobsolete; stevenpinker
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To: FreedomProtector

Halane->Haldane


261 posted on 11/01/2006 10:08:54 PM PST by FreedomProtector
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To: FreedomProtector
One reason a conversation is difficult with an evolutionist is there is usually not an agreement on epistemology.

Exactly. Thank you so much for your excellent post!

262 posted on 11/01/2006 10:39:07 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Jaguarbhzrd
Jim Robinson stated that anyone that understood evolution was a marxist etc, and had nothing to add to the conservative movement, his words.

You're misquoting Jim, I think. I was lurking on that thread. His literal comment was:

You can't be a conservative if you fall in league with the Marxist ACLU and the socialist Democrat Party.

The context was that you can't use evolution to bash Christians and be a conservative.

Speaking as a 5-year-veteran of the crevo threads, I agree with him.

On the other hand, I don't consider creation science to be science. But I consider science to be an excellent way to observe God's handiwork.

263 posted on 11/02/2006 6:24:18 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: <1/1,000,000th%

Sorry, not a misquote and not a misunderstanding of what Jim said.

He stated that we added nothing to the conservative movement, his words.


264 posted on 11/02/2006 8:29:03 AM PST by Jaguarbhzrd
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To: Jaguarbhzrd

any clarification on "DNA evidence is rather convincing, and it is repeatable"?


265 posted on 11/02/2006 9:22:24 AM PST by FreedomProtector
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To: betty boop
For no reason whatsoever, I'd like to include a picture of a girl holding a seed cone from Pinus coulteri (Coulter Pine);

I just liked the name.

266 posted on 11/02/2006 9:35:17 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Jaguarbhzrd

I would appreciate a link.

Thanks.


267 posted on 11/02/2006 9:45:00 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: <1/1,000,000th%

kewl!!!


268 posted on 11/02/2006 9:50:34 AM PST by betty boop (Beautiful are the things we see...Much the most beautiful those we do not comprehend. -- N. Steensen)
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To: <1/1,000,000th%

...would make a funky Christmas decoration!


269 posted on 11/02/2006 11:00:11 AM PST by FreedomProtector
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To: FreedomProtector

LOL!

You could hang them on your tree if they didn't knock it over.


270 posted on 11/02/2006 11:19:29 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: FreedomProtector

No clarification will be forthcoming.

Anyone that posts bible passages when discussing science is too far gone to continue to talk science with.

Science is not concerned with your bible, your bible has no effect on it, should have no effect on it, and should not be used in any scientific context.

When every response you give me is praying to God to open my hear, or quoting scripture, I know that you are attempting to witness, not dicuss science.

Sorry, I don't play that. You wish to discuss science, let's discuss it, but leave your religious beliefs at the door, because they have nothing to with science, or are in any way scientific.


271 posted on 11/02/2006 1:09:05 PM PST by Jaguarbhzrd
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To: Jaguarbhzrd; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; Cicero; cornelis; <1/1,000,000th%; .30Carbine
Anyone that posts bible passages when discussing science is too far gone to continue to talk science with.

Limiting ones self to only one method of discovering what is true [experimentalism] is limiting your ability to only discover truth found inside a limited sphere of knowledge, and ignoring truth that is outside the sphere, even if the truth inside and outside the sphere are related. This was part of what I meant when I wrote "One reason a conversation is difficult with an evolutionist is there is usually not an agreement on epistemology."

Why is it exactly that any other historical text (Egyptian hieroglyphics, stone carvings, Babylonian writings etc) are in the realm of 'forensic' science, but the bible is off limits? Why is it that when people swear that they swear by the name of Jesus Christ and not Darwin or Dread Scott, or anyone else?

I know that you are attempting to witness, not discuss science.

I am unapologetic about "attempting to witness". When someone argues for evolution, they are "attempting to witness" for their evolutionary religion as well. Claiming that "witnessing" is off limits is demonstrating a desire for bias instead of intellectual objectively or curiousity about the subject.

It should be noted that there are a fair number of interesting scientific concepts from many different scientific fields of study which directly relate to the question of origins in post #260, many of which I personally find particularly interesting.
272 posted on 11/02/2006 2:09:43 PM PST by FreedomProtector
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To: Jaguarbhzrd

The Bible, even if you don't believe in it, as those belonging to the Jewish or Christian traditions do, is an ancient text, which includes a great deal of wisdom. I don't see why it should be impermissable to quote from it, if the quotation is relevant, any more than it would be impermissable to quote from Plato or Sophocles.


273 posted on 11/02/2006 2:14:43 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero

Either we are discussing science, or we are discussing religion, we cannot be discussing both.

Evolution is science, and it does not compete with nor dsprove religion in any way.

You may think so, but that is your lack of faith, not the fault of science.

Your bible may indeed contain wisdom, but it has nothing to do with science.


274 posted on 11/02/2006 4:48:15 PM PST by Jaguarbhzrd
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To: FreedomProtector

As I said, we are done.

You mix religion with science, which makes science useless, your idea of plato and socrates is ancient, and is of little use to modern science, (unless you are speaking of logic of course,) the rest of the platonic stuff is useless for science. Great philosophy, useless science.

You just keep going on your little dreamworld, and science will just continue on it's real world.

Evolution is not religion, has never been a religion, and never will be a religion. It is a scientific theory, nothing more. It may scare you, it may even weaken your faith, but that just makes it a threat to your beliefs, it doesn't threaten mine. It is a scientific theory, it is incapable of impinging on my religious beliefs.


275 posted on 11/02/2006 4:59:29 PM PST by Jaguarbhzrd
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To: Jaguarbhzrd; betty boop; Alamo-Girl; Cicero; cornelis; <1/1,000,000th%; .30Carbine
Evolution is not religion, has never been a religion, and never will be a religion. It is a scientific theory, nothing more.

I agree with you that natural selection as a selective breeder within kinds of animals is not religious in nature. Selective breeding is observable, repeatable, falsifiable etc. However, evolution as historical reconstruction is very religious in its nature. It is not observable as we do not know how to build a time machine nor it is repeatable. If one believes in evolution it affects how we view all of the rest of life ethics (ethics must evolve), the religious purpose in life logically becomes man should save himself my directing his own evolution. Evolution provides the philosophical base for all the necessary elements of a religious view.

Evolutionists themselves state that evolution [historical reconstruction] is religious.
As far as the twentieth century is concerned, a leading evolutionist is often considered to be Sir Julian Huxley, a primary architect of modern neo-Darwinism. Huxley called evolution a "Religion Without Revelation" and wrote a book with that title (2nd edition, 1957). In a later book, he said: “Evolution . . . is the most powerful and the most comprehensive idea that has ever arisen on earth.” [Huxley, Julian, Essays of a Humanist (New York: Harper and `Row, 1964) pp. 125, 222.] Later in the book he argued passionately that we must change "our pattern of religious thought from a God-centered to an evolution-centered pattern.” Then he went on to say that: "the God hypothesis . . . is becoming an intellectual and moral burden on our thought." Therefore, he concluded that "we must construct something to take its place."

Evolutionist and senior paleontologist at the British Museum of Natural History, Dr. Colin Patterson: “If we accept [Karl] Popper’s distinction between science and non-science, we must first ask whether the theory of evolution by natural selection is scientific or pseudoscientific (metaphysical) … Taking the first part of the theory, that evolution has occurred, it says that the history of life is a single process of species-splitting and progression. This process must be unique and unrepeatable, like the history of England. This part of the theory is therefore a historical theory, about unique events, and unique events are, by definition, not part of science, for they are unrepeatable and so not subject to test.” [Colin Patterson, Evolution (London: British Museum of Natural History, 1978), pp. 145-146

Evolutionist Harrison Matthews in the Introduction to Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species “The fact of evolution is the backbone of biology, and biology is thus in the peculiar position of being a science founded on an unproved theory – is it then a science or a faith? Belief in the theory of evolution is thus exactly parallel to belief in special creation – both are concepts which believers know to be true but neither, up to the present, has been capable of proof.” [L. Harrison Matthews in the Introduction to Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species (London: J.M. Dent & Sons, 1971)

Evolutionists like to pompously masquerade repeatedly stating like a broken record that is evolution is scientifically and intellectually superior precisely because of its supposed non-religious character. Not so. Religious is exactly the right word to describe it. The philosophy of “matter is all there is” (Carl Sagan) is built on a faith-based premise. Its basic presupposition—a rejection of anything supernatural—requires a leap of faith. All people have a religious worldview--all people have presuppositions about ultimate reality. No one is neutral. Evolutionists openly state their presuppositions starting with the assertion that "Evolution is a fact". Nevermind the fact that no one has ever verified evolution--either abiogenesis or an enough beneficial information generated from random mutations to transition from one kind of animal to another. With religious fervor evolutionists presume that they know the cause of circumstantial evidence before examining it.

“Evolution is a fact, not a theory.” Carl Sagan

“The first point to make about Darwin’s theory is that it is no longer a theory, but a fact…” Julian Huxley

Evolutionists have been very clear about this distinction of fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred. Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory - natural selection - to explain the mechanism of evolution. - Stephen J. Gould, "Evolution as Fact and Theory"; Discover, May 1981

…The term theory is no longer appropriate except when referring to the various models that attempt to explain how life evolves... it is important to understand that the current questions about how life evolves in no way implies any disagreement over the fact of evolution. - Neil A. Campbell, Biology 2nd ed., 1990, Benjamin/Cummings, p.434

Professor of Genetics, Dr. Whitten, University of Melbourne: “Biologists are simply naïve when they talk about experiments designed to test the theory of evolution. It is not testable. They may happen to stumble across facts which would seem to conflict with its predictions. These facts will invariably be ignored and their discoverers will undoubtedly be deprived of continuing research grants.” Professor Whitten, 1980 Assembly Week address, University of Melbourne.

Evolution is the central doctrine and provides the foundational basis for the religion of Secular Humanism. Although the religious doctrine of evolution is essential for religion of Secular Humanism, it is not synonymous with Secular Humanism. Although the fundamental doctrine of intelligent design/creation is essential to Christianity, it is not synonymous. Intelligent design is not synonymous with any other specific religious theistic view of the world either. Evolution is not synonymous with any other religious atheistic view of the world (ex Marxism). Both are essential religious doctrines by which the religious worldviews which they support stand or fall.

The Humanist Manifesto I: “Humanism believes that man is a part of nature and that he has emerged as a result of a continuous process.”

Evolutionist Julian Huxley: “I use the word ‘Humanist’ to mean someone who believes that man is just as much a natural phenomenon as an animal or a plant, that his body, his mind, and his soul were not supernaturally created but are all products of evolution, and that he is not under the control or guidance of any supernatural Being or beings, but has to rely on himself and his own powers.”

Humanist Manifesto II: As non-theists, we begin with humans not God, nature not deity……humans are responsible for what we are or will become. No deity will save us; we must save ourselves…..human species is an emergence from natural evolutionary forces….

John Dewey, a signatory of the Humanist Manifesto I, wrote A Common Faith, in which he said, ‘Here are all the elements for a religious faith that shall not be confined to sect, class or race. . . . It remains to make it explicit and militant.’

In its decision in Torcaso v. Watkins (June 19, 1961), the U.S. Supreme Court stated, ‘Among religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the existence of God are Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism and others.’ A few years later (1965) the Supreme Court allowed Daniel Seeger conscientious objector status because of his religious beliefs. He claimed to be a Secular Humanist.

Evolution is based on faith. No one has ever observed anything close to abiogenesis. While the science of taxonomy isn't perfect and while the definition of species is debated, it is clearly observed there are limits to change within kinds of animals. No one has ever observed mutations changing an animal from one kind to another, and natural selection doesn't produce anything new. Fruit flies are still fruit flies, nylon bugs are still nylon bugs, polar bears and still polar bears, nowhere does one observe a fruit fly becoming a house fly or a polar bear. An evolutionist accepts by faith abiogenesis and enough random beneficial random mutations to transition from kinds of animals, and enough beneficial random mutations to provide enough information for ameba to become human, elephant, whale, bird, and sheep. Evolution is indeed religious faith in the extremely improbable.
276 posted on 11/02/2006 5:37:41 PM PST by FreedomProtector
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To: FreedomProtector

Ditto. Well said.

Darwinism becomes a religion when it becomes a matter of faith rather than reasoning.

Baconian science began when Bacon said, in effect, let's shove God upstairs, and do science as if he doesn't exist. God is a matter best left to the priests. Christians could agree with this, perhaps, to a certain point at least. God sustains and upholds the universe, but He does not normally interfere with the natural laws He laid down. When He occasionally does, that is defined as a miracle.

OK, that's a legitimate starting point, perhaps, but it becomes a religion when you segue from saying, "Let's leave God to one side" to saying "God simply doesn't exist," and then turn to your neighbors and say, "Belief in God is a superstition." And then turn to the ACLU and activist judges and demand that only YOUR religion, Darwinism, should be permitted in the public schools. There must be no questions asked about it, and no allowable competition, on pain of suffering the full force of the law brought against you.

The thing is, there is simply no way of establishing the nonexistence of God as a fact or a truth by any scientific method. It is simply an arbitrary hypothesis.


277 posted on 11/02/2006 7:44:15 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Jaguarbhzrd

Impossible to argue with such a compartmentalized mind, I'm afraid.


278 posted on 11/02/2006 7:46:30 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: betty boop

Just getting to this. This sums up the debate and the cost of losing it.


279 posted on 11/02/2006 7:53:55 PM PST by Tribune7 (Go Swann Go Santorum)
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To: Jaguarbhzrd
Jim Robinson stated that anyone that understood evolution was a marxist etc, and had nothing to add to the conservative movement, his words

OK, let's consider this. JR never said anyone who understood evolution was a marxist. OTOH, you said he did. I mean specifically -- "in his words".

Which frankly doesn't make you very rational does it?

So you make this claim that the "Creo's have completely lost it here" and make an ad hominin attack -- I'll grant that it was likely inadvertent (i.e. thoughtless) --on someone who's creds are beyond question then accuse your opponents of being "irrational", which illustrates a problem.

Creos have been banned and I can think of at least one, who insisted on spamming these threads with the same cut-and-paste, bandwidth-wasting illustrations, that I was glad to see go.

In the recent bloodletting at least one of the evos should have got the boot a long time ago.

280 posted on 11/02/2006 8:30:22 PM PST by Tribune7 (Go Swann Go Santorum)
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